# Why do gays want to call their relationship a "marriage"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436 "2015-07-07T01:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/321 "2015-07-10T23:42:47Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > I would’ve thought the “breedees” would be the resulting children? > > -VM Logic has no place in this conversation, sirrah! NONE! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/322 "2015-07-10T23:45:36Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What will he call opposite-sex _unmarried_ couples who can and do reproduce? unlicensed breeders - thier progeny will always be thought of as less than perfect pedigree, and will be unable to get registered. Similarly, if the breeder - regardless of licensed status, should ever attempt breeding with one of dissimilar pedigree, then they will never be able to have ‘real’ progeny. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/323 "2015-07-10T23:51:31Z")
> [@simster](#): > > unlicensed breeders Backyard breeders, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/324 "2015-07-11T00:07:38Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I still don’t understand why gays want to call their relationship a “marriage”. > > My first reason is that most gays don’t actually get married. Wikipedia says only 20% of gays in the Netherlands are married. and the numbers keep going down. > > “In March 2006, Statistics Netherlands released estimates on the number of same-sex marriages performed in each year: 2,500 in 2001, 1,800 in 2002, 1,200 in 2004, and 1,100 in 2005.” > [Same-sex marriage in the Netherlands - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Netherlands#Statistics) > > Second, I can’t believe that it is simply b/c they want govt benefits which are usually given only to married couples. States have long had civil union laws which took care of this. It seems bigger than this. > > So…that leave me wondering. Why? What does it do for them? How are things better for gays now than they were before the Supreme Court ruling? Civil union laws often do not carry the same benefits of marriage, leaving, for instance, some homosexuals without the ability to be at their loved one’s hospital bed when they are dying. Also, legal recognition as equal, not just “separate but equal” as we used to have with African Americans, assists in culturally recognition of the affected party as equal. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/325 "2015-07-11T01:12:08Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > Civil union laws often do not carry the same benefits of marriage, leaving, for instance, some homosexuals without the ability to be at their loved one’s hospital bed when they are dying. > > Also, legal recognition as equal, not just “separate but equal” as we used to have with African Americans, assists in culturally recognition of the affected party as equal. You’re right, of course. You’d think this would be obvious. But the other side has never been convinced by such simple truths. As **jsgoddess** noted, “Logic has no place in this conversation, sirrah! NONE!” ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/326 "2015-07-11T01:59:14Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > My first reason is that most gays don’t actually get married. Wikipedia says only 20% of gays in the Netherlands are married. and the numbers keep going down. Of course the numbers keep going down. The pent-up demand among gays created a marriage bubble when the law allowed gays to wed in 2001. Those numbers wouldn’t and couldn’t be sustained. If they didn’t, there’d be more same-sex marriages than couples. Anyway, marriage is [**declining throughout Europe**](http://www.wikigender.org/index.php/Marriage_Trends_in_Europe). Opposite-sex marriages (the linked article dates from 2006). So an increasing number of _opposite-sex couples_ are living in sin _all over Europe!_ _Gasp_ Think of all the \*illegitimate \*children! As for the Netherlands > [@](#): > > Different trends can be noted in the Netherlands, where marriages have increased albeit marginally in the past few years. Marriage rates are still below the numbers common in the early 1970s when more than 120 thousand couples married each year. Three-quarters of people who say they have no intention of getting married think that being married does not add anything to their current situation. Statistics Netherlands predicts that four in every ten people in their thirties will never marry. . . . Any declining numbers of same-sex marriages in the Netherlands are only background noise. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/327 "2015-07-11T03:03:00Z")
So will breeders who can only breed with chemical assistance be called “asthmatics”? Because I don’t want to imagine the results of someone huffing Viagra. They might get meningitis. (You know: A stiff neck.) Anyway, be nice to **cornopean**. This is his last splash. Him and his generation will be invisible soon. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/328 "2015-07-11T03:32:26Z")
How about straights get “marriage” but gays get “marriage”, though they have to pronounce it differently, like mah-REE-udge. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/329 "2015-07-11T03:35:02Z")
MARY-dge. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/330 "2015-07-11T03:45:04Z")
It’s like homage and homage! I always assumed gays got homage not homage. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/331 "2015-07-11T03:52:20Z")
Mawwage… ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/332 "2015-07-11T04:00:34Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Mawwage… I performed the ceremony for my brothers wedding a couple weeks ago. As a joke I did part of the Princess Bride speech during the rehearsal. My brother and his new in laws thought it was hysterical and wanted me to do it at the actual ceremony. I would have but our mom would have killed me. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/333 "2015-07-11T15:49:11Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Yep. One day they’ll push things too far and we’ll declare war on Xmas. > [@simster](#): > > Leave Annie alone! > [@kayaker](#): > > 😃 Truce/Peace talks, dude! Really! What did I do? I got a homophobe to admit it’s okay for a same sex couple to live together as long as they don’t have sex! All this talk about gay people not being able to have children is wrong, wrong, wrong. Unless we are going to say that artificial insemination and surrogate mothers are only to be used by straights, then most gays can have children. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/334 "2015-07-11T16:21:15Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I got a homophobe to admit it’s okay for a same sex couple to live together as long as they don’t have sex! I think they should avoid physical contact and do it only by dialing each other up and talking about sex. I guess that makes me a homophone. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/335 "2015-07-11T17:09:24Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > Civil union laws often do not carry the same benefits of marriage, **leaving, for instance, some homosexuals without the ability to be at their loved one’s hospital bed when they are dying.** Does that still happen IRL? Recently, I was in the hospital for three weeks, and no one even asked about the relationship between my visitors and me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/336 "2015-07-11T17:15:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Does that still happen IRL? Recently, I was in the hospital for three weeks, and no one even asked about the relationship between my visitors and me. [Here’s one from 2007.](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/health/19well.html?_r=0) [Another from 2012.](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/08/20/713251/nevada-same-sex-couple-denied-hospital-visitation-despite-domestic-partnership/) [Here’s one from 2013 where the guy was arrested for refusing to leave the side of his dying partner.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/15/roger-gorley-gay-man-denied-hospital-visitation-legal-defense_n_3086977.html) So, yeah. Still happens. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/337 "2015-07-11T19:23:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, yeah. Still happens. Also, there’s a world of difference between someone visiting, during visitation hours, and a spouse being able to receive information from the hospital staff, make necessary decisions, and set up camp. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/338 "2015-07-11T19:42:52Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Also, there’s a world of difference between someone visiting, during visitation hours, and a spouse being able to receive information from the hospital staff, make necessary decisions, and set up camp. Right. My first husband was in the hospital a lot, and in some hospitals I was offered a bed, either the other bed in a shared room or a couple of hospitals had neat pullout beds from side chairs. I was offered meals, drinks, had no restrictions on my visiting hours, etc. This is in addition to being part of every medical decision, or being the decision-maker at times. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/339 "2015-07-11T20:03:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Here’s one from 2013 where the guy was arrested for refusing to leave the side of his dying partner.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/15/roger-gorley-gay-man-denied-hospital-visitation-legal-defense_n_3086977.html) That’s not why he was arrested. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/340 "2015-07-11T20:13:11Z")
[It’s actually illegal now to discriminate on a patient’s choice of visitors or healthcare decision makers on the basis of gender or relationship.](http://www.legalout.com/tag/obama-orders-hospital-visitation/) But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t still happen. Mostly where things get sticky is when the patient doesn’t have an Advance Directive stating that their partner is their chosen Power of Attorney for Healthcare, and the hospital staff therefore follows state law by listening to a biological relative instead. Also, while you cannot be removed or prohibited from entering a patient’s room because of your gender or relationship, you can be removed for being a jerk, causing a disturbance, etc. Since, “You have to leave,” is quite likely to make someone agitated, even as they start furiously searching on their cell phone for the patient bill of rights and Medicare guidelines, in practice many people are forcibly removed even with the full legal right and consent of the patient to be there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=18)