# Why do gays want to call their relationship a "marriage"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436 "2015-07-07T01:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/21 "2015-07-07T03:20:12Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > My first reason is that most gays don’t actually get married. Wikipedia says only 20% of gays in the Netherlands are married. and the numbers keep going down. > > “In March 2006, Statistics Netherlands released estimates on the number of same-sex marriages performed in each year: 2,500 in 2001, 1,800 in 2002, 1,200 in 2004, and 1,100 in 2005.” > [Same-sex marriage in the Netherlands - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Netherlands#Statistics) I just looked at these stats again. Shouldn’t the number level off? Wouldn’t we assume that the first year would be the highest, and then taper off in the following years? Doesn’t that just make sense? From an article on the percentage who marry: > [@](#): > > ["Many of them marry out of love, of course. But, just as with straight couples, the desire to have children and the resulting legal responsibilities often weigh even more for gay and lesbian couples. > > This could explain why gay couples marry less often than straight ones. Gay couples, especially gay men, still face considerable difficulties when they want to adopt children."]([http://www.expatica.com/nl/family-essentials/Same-sex-marriage-in-the-Netherlands\_101950.html](http://www.expatica.com/nl/family-essentials/Same-sex-marriage-in-the-Netherlands_101950.html)) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/22 "2015-07-07T03:24:35Z")
Congratulations Panache In the immortal words of Kinky Friedman: I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/23 "2015-07-07T03:26:09Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > My first reason is that most gays don’t actually get married. Wikipedia says only 20% of gays in the Netherlands are married. and the numbers keep going down. > > “In March 2006, Statistics Netherlands released estimates on the number of same-sex marriages performed in each year: 2,500 in 2001, 1,800 in 2002, 1,200 in 2004, and 1,100 in 2005.” > [Same-sex marriage in the Netherlands - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Netherlands#Statistics) Why _wouldn’t_ the numbers go down like that? Same-sex marriage was not allowed before 2001, which means that in 2001 you had all the marriages that would have occurred in 2001 _and_ many of the ones that would have occurred before that. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/24 "2015-07-07T03:26:36Z")
**cornopean** : I like you because you have almost the same name as a store in my town. So, I’m asking this honestly: Can you give me one _good_ reason why it _shouldn’t_ be called “marriage”? Appeals to tradition aren’t good reasons. After all, our marriage traditions really don’t go back very far, in the scheme of things. Appeals to religion aren’t good reasons. After all, not everyone shares your religion. Appeals to biology and children aren’t good reasons. After all, plenty of people who can’t and/or shouldn’t have and/or raise kids get married. So, can you give me a good reason? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/25 "2015-07-07T03:28:23Z")
I would like to know the REAL reason **panache45** is getting married. He’s up to something, I can feel it in my gut. /Satire. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/26 "2015-07-07T03:38:23Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Hell, if Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley could get married . . . . Touché . And congrats! ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/27 "2015-07-07T03:48:17Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I happen to live in a state that had a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, or anything similar. Thanks to the SCOTUS, that amendment has been overturned, and my partner and I will be getting married later this summer. > > Our “engagement” has been almost 28 years long, and our desire to marry has little to do with governmental benefits. We want to be married simply because we love each other, and our love and commitment will endure as long as we live. > > Hell, if Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley could get married . . . . Congrats! I would also like to add that your relationship has lasted 7 times longer than my marriage. Yet, until very recently, my marriage was considered more valid than yours. That’s screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/28 "2015-07-07T04:00:17Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I still don’t understand why gays want to call their relationship a “marriage”. Do you understand why “non-gays” want to call their relationship a “marriage”? > [@jsgoddess](#): > > For the same reason I want to call my relationship a marriage. Because it is one. Yes, yes … I’ve been ninja’d already by at least half a dozen posters – but I had to say it anyway! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/29 "2015-07-07T04:02:44Z")
I suppose it’s because they deserve the right to be as unhappy as the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/30 "2015-07-07T04:05:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I suppose it’s because they deserve the right to be as unhappy as the rest of us. May all of their marriages be as unhappy as mine! ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/31 "2015-07-07T04:18:54Z")
Actually the government benefits and responsibilities are the major reason we’ll be getting married. Sure California offered benefits that were virtually the same as marriage, but that didn’t travel. In Ohio where our families live we’re basically legal strangers. Well, were until a couple weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/32 "2015-07-07T04:25:10Z")
That’s a good point, too. In a modern society gays deserve the same right as the rest of us to engage in acrimonious divorces in which each party hires a bloodthirsty, fanged carnivorous lawyer that normally comes on a short studded leash, but which can be unleashed and incited to attack, usually with most entertaining results. I believe the Biblical types refer to this as “the sanctity of marriage”. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/33 "2015-07-07T04:35:03Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Congratulations Panache > > In the immortal words of Kinky Friedman: I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us. Willie Nelson has also used that line. The Kinkster has never married but Willie has–four times. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/34 "2015-07-07T04:47:42Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Willie Nelson has also used that line. _Everyone_ has used that line. Trying to track down who said it first is like trying to figure out who first asked why the chicken crossed the road. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/35 "2015-07-07T04:53:19Z")
Why do closed minded people not want gays to call their relationships marriage? Isn’t that an acknowledgement that the word marriage has deep meaning? Some people are fighting to keep marriage from gays for the same reasons gays are fighting for marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/36 "2015-07-07T05:33:37Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I would like to know the REAL reason **panache45** is getting married. Because he wants to make sure that handsome guy next door doesn’t run away. Is it ok to ask for pics when we’re in GD? 🙂 I’m remembering the look in my brother’s face for the first months of his marriage, whenever he said _mi señora_ (my wife, my lady). He eventually acquiesced to her requests and cut it out, but not before getting his fill of saying it. I’ve met many other people who did similar things, some of them decades after being married - they say “my husband” or “my wife” with a grin bigger than this: :D. Why would someone who happens to be gay not want to have that pleasure? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/37 "2015-07-07T05:47:47Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Willie Nelson has also used that line. The Kinkster has never married but Willie has–four times. I thought Willie Nelson’s version was “I’m in favour of any marriage that doesn’t involve me”? > [@Miller](#): > > _Everyone_ has used that line. I’m pretty damned certain the OP hasn’t used that line. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/38 "2015-07-07T06:27:41Z")
Similarly, Gore Vidal said, in an interview with Time Magazine, something like (paraphrased from memory): “Heterosexual marriage is an unmitigated disaster. Why would gays want to emulate that?” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/39 "2015-07-07T07:17:55Z")
OP’s Wiki link: in the Netherlands there were 14,813 same-sex marriages between 2001 and 2011. There were 761,010 heterosexual marriages. So of all marriages, 1.9% were same-sex. Estimates of homosexuality vary from 1-10%, with the higher number encompassing those who have had at least one same-sex encounter during their lifetimes. I see from wiki that the Williams Institute report pegs the number of lesbian, gay, or bisexuals at 3.5% of the adult population. All of these numbers are rough and subject to error, but given that multiple intimate living arrangements are recognized by the Netherlands government (I counted 3), 1.9% doesn’t strike me as low or high for that matter. I’d need to look at a more detailed analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/40 "2015-07-07T12:58:03Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I would like to know the REAL reason **panache45** is getting married. Shotgun wedding? Oh, wait… **cornopean,** welcome to the 21st century. I realize there are going to be some things that will take some getting used to: it’s not “gay marriage” any more, it’s just “marriage.” We have a black president. The World Trade Center got blowed up, and we invaded Iraq because a bunch of Saudis did it. Best of luck adjusting to this brave new world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=3)