# Why do gays want to call their relationship a "marriage"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436 "2015-07-07T01:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/101 "2015-07-07T18:39:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’re very often raised by one of the parents who “hatched” them (hatched? seriously?). Since the alternative to being raised by a gay couple is to stay in a foster home with no parents, it sounds to me like banning gay marriage would be an “unconscionable denial of the most basic human rights to that child”. > > So support gay marriage – support the “most basic human rights” of children. No…because we are talking about what is normal and legal. Of course, children are raised in single-parent households as a result of tragedy and brokeness. But that is not something we want to normalize. None of us would wish for our children to be raised in a single-parent household. We want what’s best for our children and a two parent, different-sex, intact family is what is best for the child. If the child had a vote, s/he would vote for such a family. Children in foster homes are that way b/c of tragedy. If things were right, they wouldn’t be there. But when we legalize same-sex parenting, we normalize dysfunctionality. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/102 "2015-07-07T18:42:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What’s the “capacity for procreation” in a couple where the woman has had a hysterectomy? isn’t that rather obvious? her procreating tools were removed. If she were healthy and intact, she would be perfectly capable of procreating. Two males or two females no matter how healthy can never under any circumstances procreate. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/103 "2015-07-07T18:42:08Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > But when we legalize same-sex parenting, we normalize dysfunctionality. Aw. I feel bad for you. It’s like you think it’s 2004 and someone cares about your arguments against marriage equality. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/104 "2015-07-07T18:43:35Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > No…because we are talking about what is normal and legal. Of course, children are raised in single-parent households as a result of tragedy and brokeness. But that is not something we want to normalize. None of us would wish for our children to be raised in a single-parent household. We want what’s best for our children and a two parent, different-sex, intact family is what is best for the child. If the child had a vote, s/he would vote for such a family. > > Children in foster homes are that way b/c of tragedy. If things were right, they wouldn’t be there. But when we legalize same-sex parenting, we normalize dysfunctionality. But same sex parenting has been legal for decades. Given that it exists, isn’t it better for the couple to be married than not? What do you prefer an unmarried same sex couple parenting a child or a married same sex couple, with all of the rights, parenting a child? ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/105 "2015-07-07T18:44:02Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Thank you for your honesty. Finally. So the bottom line is that you don’t think that gay people should be legally allowed to raise children. Is this correct? That’s correct. My opinion is the same as David Blankenhorn’s. [Protecting marriage to protect children](http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-blankenhorn19-2008sep19-story.html) This debate is about the children, not the adults. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/106 "2015-07-07T18:44:15Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > No…because we are talking about what is normal and legal. Of course, children are raised in single-parent households as a result of tragedy and brokeness. But that is not something we want to normalize. None of us would wish for our children to be raised in a single-parent household. We want what’s best for our children and a two parent, different-sex, intact family is what is best for the child. If the child had a vote, s/he would vote for such a family. > > Children in foster homes are that way b/c of tragedy. If things were right, they wouldn’t be there. But when we legalize same-sex parenting, we normalize dysfunctionality. Same-sex parenting has been legal for a long time (before SSM), and even before it was legal, same-sex parents existed (usually when one of the same-sex parents is the biological parent). There’s no data that suggests that children raised by same-sex parents are disadvantaged or less loved in any way. There’s no data that suggests that such children would prefer to be raised by different-sex parents. Same-sex parents typically either adopt children who have no parents or raise the biological children of one of the parents. In both cases the alternative is far worse than being raised by the same-sex couple, even if same-sex parents were inferior parents to different-sex parents (and there’s no reason to believe this is so). Your assertions sound like personally bigoted feelings about homosexual people. There’s no rational reason to believe that same-sex parents are “dysfunctional” or unable to raise children properly and with love. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/107 "2015-07-07T18:44:38Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Gay parenting is cruel and a denial of a child’s basic human rights. I’ve got a good friend who was raised by two moms. (He was quite ahead of his time since he grew up in the 80s.) He’s a happy, well-adjusted guy who seems no worse for the experience. It’s important for a child to be raised in a loving and caring environment, regardless of the genitalia of the people doing the raising. Frankly, your obsession with other people’s plumbing is coming off as a little pervy. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/108 "2015-07-07T18:45:39Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > So what term are we supposed to use when we want to refer to that relationship where procreation is a possibility? There is only one such relationship capable of procreation. We used to call it “marriage”. What is the term for it now? You want a separate term to call your friends who are unable to conceive, even though they want to have children? Wow… You must be lots of fun at parties. “Hey, here’s Bill & Jane; they’re infertile. How’s the yard coming along?” > [@Smapti](#): > > I’m no doctor, but I don’t recall my sixth-grade sex ed class ever mentioning that single people were incapable of reproduction. That would end the need for abstinence-only education, otherwise… > [@cornopean](#): > > “Marriage” from here on out will be used to describe any close, intimate relatioship between consenting adults. Make sure to let the Supreme Court know about that; they may need to revise their decision. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/109 "2015-07-07T18:46:11Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > That’s correct. My opinion is the same as David Blankenhorn’s. [Protecting marriage to protect children](http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-blankenhorn19-2008sep19-story.html) > This debate is about the children, not the adults. Finally, someone is thinking about the children! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/110 "2015-07-07T18:47:35Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > That’s correct. My opinion is the same as David Blankenhorn’s. > [@](#): > > [How My View on Gay Marriage Changed > > By DAVID BLANKENHORN]([http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?_r=0)) This David Blankenhorn? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/111 "2015-07-07T18:50:20Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > No…because we are talking about what is normal and legal. Of course, children are raised in single-parent households as a result of tragedy and brokeness. But that is not something we want to normalize. None of us would wish for our children to be raised in a single-parent household. We want what’s best for our children and a two parent, different-sex, intact family is what is best for the child. If the child had a vote, s/he would vote for such a family. > > Children in foster homes are that way b/c of tragedy. If things were right, they wouldn’t be there. But when we legalize same-sex parenting, we normalize dysfunctionality. But being a single parent is legal. You say you don’t want to normalize it, but you don’t say you want to make it illegal. But then you say you don’t want a same-sex couple to be parents: you don’t want it normalized or legalized. What am I missing? Why can’t you just do the same _don’t-wanna-normalize-but-yeah-okay-legalize_ bit? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/112 "2015-07-07T18:50:29Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > That’s correct. My opinion is the same as David Blankenhorn’s. [Protecting marriage to protect children](http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-blankenhorn19-2008sep19-story.html) > This debate is about the children, not the adults. That opinion is from 2008. You might be surprised to find out that he changed his view in 2012. > **[Opinion | How My View on Gay Marriage Changed (Published 2012)](https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?_r=0)** > > The time has come for me, a longtime marriage advocate, to accept gay marriage and emphasize the good that it can do. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/113 "2015-07-07T18:53:00Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > isn’t that rather obvious? her procreating tools were removed. If she were healthy and intact, she would be perfectly capable of procreating. Two males or two females no matter how healthy can never under any circumstances procreate. But she’s not “healthy and intact.” She’s completely infertile. So shouldn’t she also be barred from marriage, just like gay people? Anyway, gay people who want to have children, are going to have children, regardless of whether or not we can get married. Roll back all the gay marriage laws and rulings in this country, and you’ll still have lots and lots of kids being raised by gay parents. If there were actually a disadvantage to being raised by gay parents (and study after study has confirmed that there is not) why would you want to further disadvantage the children by preventing the adults from marrying? If this were “all about the children” as you claim, you should be eager to give them every possible advantage - including the advantage of being raised in a government-recognized marriage. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/114 "2015-07-07T18:54:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But she’s not “healthy and intact.” She’s completely infertile. So shouldn’t she also be barred from marriage, just like gay people? > > Anyway, gay people who want to have children, are going to have children, regardless of whether or not we can get married. Roll back all the gay marriage laws and rulings in this country, and you’ll still have lots and lots of kids being raised by gay parents. If there were actually a disadvantage to being raised by gay parents (and study after study has confirmed that there is not) why would you want to further disadvantage the children by preventing the adults from marrying? If this were “all about the children” as you claim, you should be eager to give them every possible advantage - including the advantage of being raised in a government-recognized marriage. Yep. The “think of the children” argument just makes me more obviously for same-sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/115 "2015-07-07T19:02:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Aw. I feel bad for you. It’s like you think it’s 2004 and someone cares about your arguments against marriage equality. Apparently, he thinks it’s 2007, but I guess that’s close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/116 "2015-07-07T19:08:09Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > That’s correct. My opinion is the same as David Blankenhorn’s. [Protecting marriage to protect children](http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-blankenhorn19-2008sep19-story.html) > This debate is about the children, not the adults. As has been pointed out, he changed his mind. Does anything he wrote influence your thinking? ---
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/117 "2015-07-07T19:08:25Z")
> [@Smartass](#): > > If you really hate the word “satisfied”, I’m sure we can find a synonym that would, um, content you. 😃 Motly I ate my keyoard radomly droping lettes al te time. > [@cornopean](#): > > The capacity for procreation is there in a way that it certainly isn’t in a same-sex relationship. > [@Anaamika](#): > > You funny. > > I am planning on getting married next year (shh! It’s a secret) and I have been medically sterilized. So I guess it won’t be a “real” marriage either. Still counts. Just because you can’t have babies doesn’t mean you can’t have babies. > [@cornopean](#): > > None of us would wish for our children to be raised in a single-parent household That would mean my relationship had ended in one way or another. I would indeed not want that, assuming I retained the capacity to care. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/118 "2015-07-07T19:09:42Z")
I knew gay couples and they only said they were marriage if they really were. Gay people get married for the same reason straight people do and I can’t understand why anyone care who a person want spend the reason of their life with. I hated people giving me shit for dating Black men and I sure can’t stand seeing this happening to gay people . All LOVE is the same , there is no wrong way to love someone. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/119 "2015-07-07T19:13:22Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > It’s important for a child to be raised in a loving and caring environment, regardless of the genitalia of the people doing the raising. Frankly, your obsession with other people’s plumbing is coming off as a little pervy. The idea that the only difference between men and women is their genitalia is another point on which you and I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/120 "2015-07-07T19:14:53Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The children in a same-sex “family” are NEVER raised by the parents who hatched them. To me, that is an unconscionable denial of the most basic human rights to that child. So if an opposite-sex family divorces and the custodial parent remarries, that child’s “basic human rights” are being violated by dint of their not being “raised by the parent who hatched them”? I call bullhonkey. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=7)