# Why do gays want to call their relationship a "marriage"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436 "2015-07-07T01:03:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/121 "2015-07-07T19:16:06Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The idea that the only difference between men and women is their genitalia is another point on which you and I disagree. You’ve presented no argument that legalizing same-sex marriage harms children in any way, and you haven’t even attempted to challenge the notion that SSM greatly helps the children of same-sex parents. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/122 "2015-07-07T19:16:26Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > That opinion is from 2008. You might be surprised to find out that he changed his view in 2012. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/opinion/how-my-view-on-gay-marriage-changed.html?_r=0) I didn’t know that. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/123 "2015-07-07T19:21:55Z")
Gays don’t _want_ to be married-they _can_ be married, the debate is over and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. They can be married, when they are married it is called marriage and the debate is over and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. When a married gay couple decide to have children, they have the right to have those children and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Your side lost. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/124 "2015-07-07T19:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by cornopean View Post > The children in a same-sex “family” are NEVER raised by the parents who hatched them. To me, that is an unconscionable denial of the most basic human rights to that child. I can think of about 50 things children would care more about than this. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/125 "2015-07-07T19:28:49Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The idea that the only difference between men and women is their genitalia is another point on which you and I disagree. On average, there are certainly cultural differences between people who have been socialized male and people who have been socialized female, but there is a HUGE amount of individual variation. There are women who are stoic and aggressive (traits typically thought of as “masculine”). There are men who are caring and meek (traits typically thought of as “feminine”). Having a man and a woman as parents is no guarantee that you will get the “correct” mix of gender identities (whatever that is). So, would you be okay with two lesbians raising a child if one was a bull dyke and the other was a girly femme? ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/126 "2015-07-07T19:34:37Z")
**cornopean** , I see from your website that you are a pastor and Bible enthusiast. Presumably your objections to same-sex marriage and parenting are religious in nature. Why would you make an illogical secular argument on procreation rather than a biblical one? Why the human rights of a child and not God’s law? Don’t get me wrong, a religious argument wouldn’t be compelling. But your venture into secularism isn’t going all that well either. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/127 "2015-07-07T19:36:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Gays don’t _want_ to be married-they _can_ be married, the debate is over and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Let’s repeat this a few times. \ ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/128 "2015-07-07T19:47:37Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > Still counts. Just because you can’t have babies doesn’t mean you can’t have babies. Yeah, it makes my head spin too. But wait! I have a new complaint now: > [@](#): > > The children in a same-sex “family” are NEVER raised by the parents who hatched them. To me, that is an unconscionable denial of the most basic human rights to that child. I wasn’t raised by the parents who hatched me either! I have been unconsciously denied my most basic human rights! Actually, I don’t agree that “being raised by the parents who hatched you” is some kind of human right? My own dad didn’t want me; I don’t think it would have been good for me to be forced into his household. Even our inalienable rights don’t state “the right to be raised by the parents who hatched you”. But yeah, like others have said, the buck is passed and you are on the wrong side of history. Get over yourself, please. Me, I am happy that when gay and lesbian people have children, as they have been since time immemorial, they can get married and confer the proper rights onto the child. The child can have two loving parents! And if they don’t want to have kids, why they join a host of us heteros who also are either delaying having children or deciding not to have them at all. Just…stop. There are way more important things for you! Gay marriage hurts you not a whit! ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/129 "2015-07-07T19:57:51Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > isn’t that rather obvious? her procreating tools were removed. If she were healthy and intact, she would be perfectly capable of procreating. Two males or two females no matter how healthy can never under any circumstances procreate. This sounds like it’s getting into Symbolic Magic territory. Symbolic Magic can be fun, but you shouldn’t base laws on it. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/130 "2015-07-07T20:03:48Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > no one said you have to be able to produce to get married. who said that? I am simply asserting that we need some kind of term for the relationship that has the capacity (if everything is healthy and working properly) for procreation. I guess you could call it “ **cornocopean’s** made up word so that he doesn’t have to share even a generic legal descriptor with those dirty queers,” but I think you’ll have a hard time convincing the state printing office to add it to all their forms. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/131 "2015-07-07T20:07:38Z")
Cornopean has been a member for 2 years on this board and never bothered to read the arguments in any of the hundred+ gay marriage threads we’ve had. I know this is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance but come on now, some people are beyond your help. He/she wants to live in an alternate reality with a 1980s setting let him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/132 "2015-07-07T20:10:27Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I guess you could call it “ **cornocopean’s** made up word so that he doesn’t have to share even a generic legal descriptor with those dirty queers,” but I think you’ll have a hard time convincing the state printing office to add it to all their forms. Since it involves inserting one rod into one hole, we could call it “boring”. ---
**Author:** ![Smartass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@Smartass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smartass)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/133 "2015-07-07T20:14:59Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > But b/c children are a real possibility, society now has a real interest in ensuring that those children are brought to adulthood in such a way that they can function in a free society. What, in case a free society spontaneously manifests around them? Does it feel awkward at all to you when you simultaneously campaign for a less free society while claiming to prepare children to live in a free one? What’s the point? I think it would be a lot more consistent for you to prepare them for a harsh, judgmental society where people begrudge other people any happiness they can find that doesn’t comply with the established template. Makes my skin crawl to see the words “free society” used in this context. > [@cornopean](#): > > My problem is not so much with gay marriage (which is a non-entity IMO) but with gay parenting. Gay parenting is cruel and a denial of a child’s basic human rights. Which basic human rights are you referring to? The right to be surrounded by heterosexuals? The right to be loved only by right-thinking people? _My problem_ is with Christian fundamentalists who talk about love and compassion while acting mean-spirited and petty. I think Christian parenting is cruel and a denial of a child’s right to be taught to understand the real world that it’s going to have to live in. Speaking as 1/2 of a breeder/marriage relationship with two teenage children that I love dearly, I believe that if you took all the kids out of fundamentalist Christian homes and placed them in “gay marriage” homes, the world would become a better place inside of 20 years, not because I think gay parents are better than other parents in general, but they’re WAY better than _that_ kind. And for the record, I feel just as entitled to insult Christian parents as a group as YOU do to insult gay parents as a group. I think it’s totally fair. So, do you care what I think about what’s best for the nation’s children? Because I sure don’t care about your theory that saying “It’s for the children” makes it okay to launch a bunch of veiled insults at gay people that you’ve never met. -VM ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/134 "2015-07-07T20:39:08Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I guess you could call it “ **cornocopean’s** made up word so that he doesn’t have to share even a generic legal descriptor with those dirty queers,” but I think you’ll have a hard time convincing the state printing office to add it to all their forms. Perhaps just an unpronounceable symbol? Like this: [http://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PrinceSymbol150.jpg](http://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PrinceSymbol150.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/135 "2015-07-07T20:48:45Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Perhaps just an unpronounceable symbol? > > Like this: [http://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PrinceSymbol150.jpg](http://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/PrinceSymbol150.jpg) The people formerly known as married?! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/136 "2015-07-07T20:52:22Z")
miasma sclerotic ungulate These are words that I submit are as ugly, if not more, as fecund. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/137 "2015-07-07T20:54:15Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > miasma > sclerotic > ungulate > > These are words that I submit are as ugly, if not more, as fecund. I like miasma! It’s fun to say! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/138 "2015-07-07T20:59:54Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Cornopean has been a member for 2 years on this board and never bothered to read the arguments in any of the hundred+ gay marriage threads we’ve had. I know this is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance but come on now, some people are beyond your help. > > He/she wants to live in an alternate reality with a 1980s setting let him. But even in the 1980s we let people get married even if they couldn’t reproduce. Sometimes we even _insisted_ they be unable to reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/139 "2015-07-07T21:03:48Z")
FTR: I’ve know plenty of hetero couples that really have no business breeding. But they do anyway. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436/140 "2015-07-07T21:06:38Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > FTR: I’ve know plenty of hetero couples that really have no business breeding. But they do anyway. Some without being married, no doubt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gays-want-to-call-their-relationship-a-marriage/724436.md?page=8)