# Why do GOP Presidents do a poor job of picking justices? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618 "2012-06-28T19:30:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/21 "2012-06-28T23:15:08Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > So how to the hardcore dem/lib justices breeze through the Senate? Well, for one there have not been any hardcore liberal justices that have breezed through the Senate. As with so much else in this world, just because someone is to the left of Clarence Thomas does not equal that they are hardcore liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/22 "2012-06-28T23:40:05Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Well, for one there have not been any hardcore liberal justices that have breezed through the Senate. Thurgood Marshall was hardcore liberal from the getgo, and he was confirmed 69-11. More recently, Ginsberg is solidly liberal, and passed 96-3, and Breyer, also solidly liberal, passed 87-9. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/23 "2012-06-28T23:46:28Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Judges in general tend to lean liberal, don’t they? Maybe there’s something in particular about the responsibilities of the judicial branch that conflicts with hard right conservative politics? Logic, evidence and precedent? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/24 "2012-06-28T23:56:54Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > His vote in the Arizona immigration case on Monday worried me. This confirms it. We can’t count on him to be on our side. One would hope he is on the side of the Constitution. What side are you on? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/25 "2012-06-29T00:20:17Z")
Republican POTUSes have historically appointed less qualified\* judges. Not just to SCOTUS, but to the federal circuits too. That makes it harder for them to get confirmed, so those POTUSes later appoint moderates to split the opposition. Witness the Harriet Meiers debacle before Roberts’ appointment, for example. \*according to the ABA. Conservatives have been saying the ABA is biased for some time, and the Bush II Administration was the first to reject their recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/26 "2012-06-29T00:43:49Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > There’s a left-wing canard that addresses this: “Reality has a liberal bias.” > > Legislators can rail about doing anything they want, but judges need work within the law. Consider how many times an acknowledged conservative like \*\*Bricker \*\*has come down on the liberal side on these boards when discussing the legal merit of a situation–not necessarily whether or not he agrees with something, just the legal merit. The fact of the matter is that many contentious mainstream “liberal” positions tend to be legally tenable, whereas highly-touted “conservative” positions (these days) tend to be more populist and less rooted in established law. A guy like Roberts, especially as Chief Justice, is going to have a hard time ignoring a clear legal path that allows him to not strike down a federal law, even if he may personally align with positions against that law. True. Oddly, though, it doesn’t seem to stop people from calling me a partisan hack who bases his support on the desired outcome and not the law. I wish more folks could see (or admit) what you’ve said here. ---
**Author:** ![celtic\_cross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@celtic\_cross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celtic_cross)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/27 "2012-06-29T00:54:52Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But Dem Presidents are solid? By “poor job” I mean ideologically inconsistent. > > In recent years, GOP Presidents have picked O’Connor, Kennedy, Souter, and now Roberts against Scalia, Thomas, and Alito. 3/7 > > In contrast Dem Presidents have picked Breyer, Ginsburg, Kagan, and Sotomayor. 4/4 > > Why doesn’t a Dem President get surprised that his pick turns conservative? A better vetting process perhaps? > > And yes, a few jabs at me about how I’m a whiny bitch because Roberts didn’t march in lock step today are acceptable, but I would like an answer to my question. I know its GQ, but it’s definitely GD, so that’s why I put it here. Dems are soulless. Their religion is social justice. They believe the end justifies the means. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/28 "2012-06-29T01:05:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The irony is amusing. > 😛 > > Yep, progressives are just _so much more knowledgeable._ So you’re saying that reality DOES have a liberal bias, **furt**? furt. heh. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/29 "2012-06-29T01:06:50Z")
> [@celtic\_cross](#): > > Dems are soulless. Their religion is social justice. They believe the end justifies the means. I guess I don’t see how one follows the other. Are you saying that the best result isn’t the one that produces the most happiness? What would be a better course to follow? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/30 "2012-06-29T01:13:06Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > His vote in the Arizona immigration case on Monday worried me. This confirms it. We can’t count on him to be on our side. > > If you were a conservative, would you rely on Roberts as much as on Scalia or Thomas? Why should I be concerned about relying on any Supreme Court justice? As long as the decision has a solid basis in law I’m OK with it. When it comes to legal matters there should be no “side”. Naive? Perhaps. With few exceptions (_Kelo_, notably) I have been OK with Supreme Court decisions in my lifetime. And even the ones I disagreed with were fairly well reasoned decisions. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/31 "2012-06-29T01:14:54Z")
This would have made a better argument if you’d explicitly excluded Roberts from discussion, as he’s a staunch conservative who nonetheless (occasionally at least) puts principles over politics, and thus didn’t engage in an unprincipled vote against a perfectly constitutional law, the way the court’s other conservative justices did. That, at least, is what GOP leaders claim to want in a Supreme Court justice. And you might be able to make a case that GOP presidents have tended to pick justices who became more liberal, I suppose, but it’s hard to say that about anyone presently on the court, with the occasional exception of Kennedy. Scalia, Alito, and Thomas certainly never betray their partisanship. [QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Well, a hardcore predictable republican/conservative wouldn’t get past the senate, ref: Robert Bork. [/QUOTE] Unless they were Scalia, Alito, and Thomas, the latter of whom doesn’t even pretend to engage in any kind of legal reasoning to support his votes. I doubt there will ever be a liberal justice who gets nominated after earning the track record Thomas did at nomination. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/32 "2012-06-29T01:23:17Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > As long as the decision has a solid basis in law I’m OK with it. When it comes to legal matters there should be no “side”. > > Naive? Perhaps. I would say so. Surely you know how easily a legal argument can be made for either side in a case so far from cut and dried that it even reaches the court. A lawyer of enough skill to reach that level as a judge has no trouble at all fitting a superficially-reasonable-seeming legal argument under a conclusion he already wants to reach. You say there should be no “side” in legal matters? Does that mean you have faith that the process of legal reasoning should always reach one particular conclusion in any case under consideration? Can you really mean that or anything like that? ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/33 "2012-06-29T01:33:32Z")
Someone correct me if I’m wrong - as if I had to give that instruction to people on this board - but wasn’t the phase “Reality has a liberal bias” originated by noted mock conservative pundit Stephen Colbert? I didn’t realize that that quip had risen to (or sunk to ) the level of canard yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/34 "2012-06-29T01:36:41Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Someone correct me if I’m wrong - as if I had to give that instruction to people on this board - but wasn’t the phase “Reality has a liberal bias” originated by noted mock conservative pundit Stephen Colbert? Yes. The full quote was “reality has a well known liberal bias,” and I think he first said it while mocking Bush before the White House Press Corps. ---
**Author:** ![celtic\_cross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@celtic\_cross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celtic_cross)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/35 "2012-06-29T01:36:59Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I guess I don’t see how one follows the other. Are you saying that the best result isn’t the one that produces the most happiness? What would be a better course to follow? I’m saying that’s why Dems are reliable, especially on social issues. Nobody ever speculates about how the liberal four vote. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/36 "2012-06-29T01:41:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I would say so. Surely you know how easily a legal argument can be made for either side in a case so far from cut and dried that it even reaches the court. A lawyer of enough skill to reach that level as a judge has no trouble at all fitting a superficially-reasonable-seeming legal argument under a conclusion he already wants to reach. > > You say there should be no “side” in legal matters? Does that mean you have faith that the process of legal reasoning should always reach one particular conclusion in any case under consideration? Can you really mean that or anything like that? I meant in the context of politics. In every court proceeding there are opposing viewpoints and someone has to lose. I no longer choose to look at the result as a loss for the right or left wing. To be frank, I like the way today turned out and would probably be somewhat annoyed had it gone the other way, but I’m neither going nuts or high-filing people over it. My beliefs won, not my “side”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/37 "2012-06-29T01:43:10Z")
> [@celtic\_cross](#): > > I’m saying that’s why Dems are reliable, especially on social issues. Nobody ever speculates about how the liberal four vote. No matter how many times people say this, it’s still wrong. Not every Supreme Court case goes 5-4 with Kennedy as the swing vote. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/38 "2012-06-29T01:46:33Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Someone correct me if I’m wrong - as if I had to give that instruction to people on this board - but wasn’t the phase “Reality has a liberal bias” originated by noted mock conservative pundit Stephen Colbert? > > I didn’t realize that that quip had risen to (or sunk to ) the level of canard yet. There was a different source that came with a very similar retort against the people that do want to be grounded in reality and not dogma, I think that was what inspired Colbert: > **[Reality-based community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community)** > > Reality-based community is a derisive term for people who base judgments on facts. It was first attributed to a senior official working for U.S. president George W. Bush by the reporter Ron Suskind in 2004. Many American liberals adopted the label for themselves, using it to portray themselves as adhering to facts in contrast to conservatives presumed to be disregarding professional and scientific expertise. > The phrase was attributed by journalist Ron Suskind to an unnamed official in the Geor... > [@](#): > > The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove[1]): > > > [@](#): > > > > The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” > > [2] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/39 "2012-06-29T02:05:53Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > Someone correct me if I’m wrong - as if I had to give that instruction to people on this board - but wasn’t the phase “Reality has a liberal bias” originated by noted mock conservative pundit Stephen Colbert? Wrong “Daily Show” staffer - it was [Rob Corddry](http://www.slapnose.com/archives/2004/05/04/the_liberal_bias_of_facts/). > [@](#): > > Corddry: How does one report the facts in an unbiased way when the facts themselves are biased? > > Stewart: I’m sorry, Rob, did you say the facts are biased? > > Corddry: That’s right Jon. From the names of our fallen soldiers to the gradual withdrawal of our allies to the growing insurgency, it’s become all too clear that facts in Iraq have an anti-Bush agenda. ---
**Author:** ![celtic\_cross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@celtic\_cross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/celtic_cross)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618/40 "2012-06-29T02:06:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No matter how many times people say this, it’s still wrong. Not every Supreme Court case goes 5-4 with Kennedy as the swing vote. The qualifier was “especially social issues”. Let’s face it, those are the cases usually reported. The news media knows what cases would be a snore-fest and which ones people can relate to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gop-presidents-do-a-poor-job-of-picking-justices/626618.md?page=3)