# Why do gunowners own guns only because "they have the right to"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825 "2012-02-24T11:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/221 "2012-02-27T01:27:51Z")
You’re not going to get anywhere, **Candyman**. They’ve had _Unkind Words_ cast at them by others, barbed ideas that left deep wounds that can never heal, and at which they tragically cannot return fire. “It’s someone else’s fault I’m an asshole!” is a common refrain. Try not to take it personally. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/222 "2012-02-27T01:30:08Z")
No, it doesn’t sound OK. But neither is comparing “Euro”, a term clearly intended to mean “Europeans”, to black people. One is a pejorative in the context of the discussion, the other is clearly not. Why you think that is an apt comparison is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/223 "2012-02-27T01:32:54Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > No, it doesn’t sound OK. But neither is comparing “Euro”, a term clearly intended to mean “Europeans”, to black people. One is a pejorative, the other is clearly not. Why you think that is an apt comparison is beyond me. That’s all you got out of my post? A semantic criticism of an analogy? Maybe the analogy was poor, but you got that I was trying to say “don’t generalise about 500 million people and insult them because of what you think they ‘might’ say”, right? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/224 "2012-02-27T01:49:04Z")
Fine. I pledge never to use the term “Euros” except when talking about money. I will spell it out and use the term “Europeans”, which apparently is less insulting. If you would like me to differentiate by country when addressing said person from Europe, I would kindly ask that you ensure the person in question references the country they are from so that I don’t generalize. In turn, I expect you to refer to me by the state I live in. You may therefore refer to me as a Pennsylvanian. It’s awfully petty, I know, but you named the tune, I’m just playing it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/225 "2012-02-27T02:04:45Z")
FTR, the first and IIRC only time I was called a liar on this board was the first (and one of the few (\<8?)) times I participated in a GD gun thread. The insult was not retracted in the thread I subsequently opened in the Pit, but nor did it attain new backers. That said, I guess I can’t complain about a bogus assertion made by a single individual. But somehow I’m not surprised that such an accusation would _only_ be limited to gun threads. Also, **Ex Tank** was entirely civil in that (8 year old?) thread. Anyway, I’m arguing that the vitriol goes two ways. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/226 "2012-02-27T02:07:35Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Fine. I pledge never to use the term “Euros” except when talking about money. I will spell it out and use the term “Europeans”, which apparently is less insulting. If you would like me to differentiate by country when addressing said person from Europe, I would kindly ask that you ensure the person in question references the country they are from so that I don’t generalize. In turn, I expect you to refer to me by the state I live in. You may therefore refer to me as a Pennsylvanian. > > It’s awfully petty, I know, but you named the tune, I’m just playing it. Ah, OK. That _is_ all you got from the post. I don’t know whether that’s my fault or yours, but that wasn’t what the post was about. Ah well. C’est as they say la vie. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/227 "2012-02-27T02:10:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > FTR, the first and IIRC only time I was called a liar on this board was the first (and one of the few (\<8?)) times I participated in a GD gun thread. The insult was not retracted in the thread I subsequently opened in the Pit, but nor did it attain new backers. > > That said, I guess I can’t complain about a bogus assertion made by a single individual. But somehow I’m not surprised that such an accusation would _only_ be limited to gun threads. Also, **Ex Tank** was entirely civil in that (8 year old?) thread. Anyway, I’m arguing that the vitriol goes two ways. Maybe in a thread 8 years ago. Not in this one. The vitriol is pretty one way, directed by a pro gun person to another simply because he mistook that person for an anti-gun person, and not due to that person’s actual opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/228 "2012-02-27T02:11:30Z")
There’s an important common law principle caused desuetude. The general idea is that rights or laws not applied or asserted over a period of years can be deemed inoperative or surrendered. “That was how they used to do it, but the very fact that no one’s doing it anymore shows that the right’s not very important and indeed may not be operative or necessary anymore.” And don’t think opponents of individual gun rights, or proponents of a “living constitution,” wouldn’t go there. While constitutional rights are in principle far less capable of extinguishment than are statutory or common law rights, the principle of use it or lose it has a long history in common law. Why do you think Rockefeller Plaza and many other private property holders shut down their sidewalks once a year? It’s to prevent a far-fetched but legally not-insane argument that they had created a permanent easement and they could never reclaim their previously-private passages. One of the NRA’s most powerful arguments/powers is the fact that half of the country owns guns. This open and widespread ownership of guns, and the NRA’s formidable and active membership, makes it very difficult for the media or gun banners to try to marginalize the very concept of private gun ownership (it does not stop them from trying) and is a very visible marker that politicians who might otherwise be lulled into thinking that gun ownership was a marginal issue for the great majority of voters cannot ignore. So yeah, even before I was really active as a shooter or thinking about concealed carry or self-defense, I bought a gun “because I could,” and to make sure I could continue to do so. By the way, this symbolic act also serves a practical purpose. Because opponents of private gun ownership can’t deny the Second Amendment’s individual right outright, they can be very assiduous in constraining it with all sorts of over-regulation that make it near-impossible to exercise (which poses just about as much impingement on the constitutional right than an outright ban). Buying a gun was my way of verifying that mine was not one of the jurisdictions that tried to regulate away what they could not ban. So I don’t have to spend as much time and political capital pushing my local pols to give me my rights as I would if, say, I tried to exercise my Second Amendment right in New York City. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/229 "2012-02-27T02:27:21Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Maybe in a thread 8 years ago. Not in this one. The vitriol is pretty one way, directed by a pro gun person to another simply because he mistook that person for an anti-gun person, and not due to that person’s actual opinions. You do realize that this is The Pit, do you not? The more you whine that someone was mean to you here, the more utterly clueless you make yourself appear. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/230 "2012-02-27T03:02:59Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You do realize that this is The Pit, do you not? The more you whine that someone was mean to you here, the more utterly clueless you make yourself appear. Well… while vitriol is _permitted_ in the Pit, it is not required. And methinks a super-proportionate share of the hostility in this thread has been expressed by **Scumpup**. Admittedly, it isn’t particularly bad: in fact this thread is unusually civil for a pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/231 "2012-02-27T03:28:01Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well… while vitriol is _permitted_ in the Pit, it is not required. And methinks a super-proportionate share of the hostility in this thread has been expressed by **Scumpup**. Admittedly, it isn’t particularly bad: in fact this thread is unusually civil for a pit thread. Hell, it’s unusually civil for a gun-related thread. Which is what I was driving at in my previous posts to **2square** and **Candyman.** **Scumpup** is being rude; but he’s being rude in a rather civil manner, if folks will pardon the oxymoron. It’s cold, curt, and to the point, but it’s not obscene, and mostly not derogatory or insulting (a few recent additions notwithstanding). It’s definitely not the frothing, gibbering, hate-fest masquerading as “debate” on this board, typified by the majority of this board’s gun-control enthusiasts. ---
**Author:** ![Horseface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4af34b/32.png) [@Horseface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horseface)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/232 "2012-02-27T03:33:14Z")
People own guns to protect the OP’s right to ask moronic questions about owning guns. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/233 "2012-02-27T03:33:28Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You do realize that this is The Pit, do you not? The more you whine that someone was mean to you here, the more utterly clueless you make yourself appear. Oh, I see. So you accused me of incest because you _had to_? And retarded because you had no choice? And now ‘clueless’ because you believe it’s required in the pit? I guess you live up to your username. Probably not an accident. You’re a nasty piece of work, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/234 "2012-02-27T03:41:28Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Oh, I see. So you accused me of incest because you _had to_? And retarded because you had no choice? > > And now ‘clueless’ because you believe it’s required in the pit? > > I guess you live up to your username. Probably not an accident. You’re a nasty piece of work, aren’t you? Race card…victim card…reference my user name…yep. Retard trifecta. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/235 "2012-02-27T04:00:05Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Race card…victim card…reference my user name…yep. Retard trifecta. Yeah. OK. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/236 "2012-02-27T05:52:59Z")
> [@Horseface](#): > > People own guns to protect the OP’s right to ask moronic questions about owning guns. Ha. A Second-Amendment-enabled public will be, mutatis mutandis, much more likely to enforce/defend all the other Amendments and Sections of our Constitution. The fact that the Government knows that any attempt to confiscate guns would meet with – shall we say – generous waterings of the Tree of Liberty, is a great safeguard for all our other Constitutional liberties. Right to free speech, right to peacably assemble, right to due process – all intimately linked to the meaningful exercise of the right to keep and bear arms. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/237 "2012-02-27T06:01:19Z")
> [@Horseface](#): > > People own guns to protect the OP’s right to ask moronic questions about owning guns. Oh… well in that case, thanks! 🙂 It occurs to me that hobbies of all sorts are somewhat difficult to defend. I don’t know why Airman Doors paints model airplanes. I don’t know why Una collects swords. Heck I don’t know why I am an anime and manga fanatic. Working out motive is a surprisingly tricky business and most explanations have the feel of an excuse. ETA: Re: Huerta88: Your latest point has been addressed in umpteen threads specifically devoted to that question. Your claims are, at best, dubious or at least they ignore a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/238 "2012-02-27T06:17:27Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > ETA: Re: Huerta88: Your latest point has been addressed in umpteen threads specifically devoted to that question. Your claims are, at best, dubious or at least they ignore a lot. Which part of it/them? I really can’t discern. And do you believe that the volitional activities or proclivities that you identify do, or do not, need some affirmative justification before being deemed presumptively lawful? Painting model airplanes? Anime? Owning my own gun? I’m just a tad lost. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/239 "2012-02-27T06:41:04Z")
> [@Craz3d117](#): > > “Because I have the right to” has never been a legitimate answer in my opinion. While true, it implies that the person asking is questioning their rights and thus is met with an immediate defense, instead of just being honest. In my experience, variations of “why do you own a gun” usually aren’t honest questions. They’re designed to get gun owners to justify the ownership of firearms or to perhaps start a debate of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825/240 "2012-02-27T08:12:38Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Which part of it/them? I really can’t discern. Fair enough: it was an edited to add. ## Gunowners are at best infantry. Realistically, they won’t stand a chance against a serious army, or so the arguments goes. There have been many threads on this topic. I was suggesting you might acknowledge the counter-arguments at least. I have my beliefs on the subject, but frankly they are based entirely upon past SDMB threads: my gun knowledge is rather spotty. > [@](#): > > And do you believe that the volitional activities or proclivities that you identify do, or do not, need some affirmative justification before being deemed presumptively lawful? > > Painting model airplanes? > > Anime? > > Owning my own gun? > > I’m just a tad lost. That was a wholly separate point. The OP concerned the question, “Why do you own a gun?” It had been noted earlier in the thread that the question as formed was possibly hostile and possibly reflective of poor conversational skills in a real life context. I was noting that firearms are often a hobby, and that most hobbies -including benign ones like stamp collecting- can be difficult to explain to outsiders. ## Sorry for my lack of clarity. Heh. I once met a guy who introduced himself as a gun nut. Well, I’m glad we got that out of the way. Then we discussed his love of firing big cannon in the desert. Hey, I like a loud kaboom as much as anybody. Good times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-gunowners-own-guns-only-because-they-have-the-right-to/613825.md?page=13)