# Why do humans cook their food? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846 "2023-10-20T16:31:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/101 "2023-10-28T00:38:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > In attempting to source this information, I found an article that actually discounts the theory. (My bolds) Oh thanks!! I knew that I should have looked into it more, but that’s why I qualified that I wasn’t sure if it were still accepted or not. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/102 "2023-10-28T08:03:06Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > The Owsley diet, he was famous for that. He thought plants were trying to kill us in that sense, There are probably quite a few examples where plants produce chemicals to protect themselves (not necessarily from us) or nurture their own agenda of growth and reproduction, but those chemicals turn out to be beneficial to humans in some way, small or large. The majority of herbs and spices fall into this category, as well as a lot of fruits. Human nutrition is not so much about ‘what _should_ we’ as it is about ‘what _can_ we’ ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/103 "2023-10-28T13:47:38Z")
That seems pretty high, but OK. The numbers I’ve seen are about 6000 for members of the expedition at times. The US military defines “heavy exertion” in their own way, but allows it needs about 4,000 calories daily. Ordinarily about 3500 calories a day for moderate exercise, or just daily army life. I’ll probably regret going down this internet time-sink, but I wonder what the Roman Army ate while on the march. The Americans settled on pork and beans in the 19th century, and hardtack early on. Colin Fletcher, the guy in the avatar, ate about 1 pound of pure sugar in one form or another daily on his 1958 walk, in addition to regular meals of some sort. But, he was also walking 20 miles a day, day after day in varied terrain with a 50 pound backpack. He still lost a lot of weight. Point being it can be really difficult to source enough calories from plants at times. When carrying all your food, it becomes evident that even dense, high calorie foods will only take you so far. Either “artificial” means like refined carbohydrate, or concentrated, preserved forms. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/104 "2023-10-28T14:19:20Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > I’ll probably regret going down this internet time-sink, but I wonder what the Roman Army ate while on the march. Here’s what I found. > [@](#): > > During the march, the Roman soldier had to have his own supplies that allowed him to feed himself for 2-3 days. Late Roman _Codex_ _Theodosianus,_ being a collection of Roman laws, mentions that a Roman soldier should be equipped with _buccellatum ac panem, vinum quoque atque acetum, sed et laridum, carnem verbecinam,_ or “hardtack and bread, wine too and vinegar, but also bacon and mutton” (VII.4.6). The rusks, vinegar and mutton would last for two days, and then the soldier would enjoy bread, wine and bacon… > > The meals of the Roman legionaries were mainly based on wheat, from which two types of [food](https://imperiumromanum.pl/en/roman-society/eating-habits-of-romans/) were made: > > - mash, called _pulse_. It was an easier-to-make food that required a mixture of cooked wheat grains, water, salt, fat, and olive oil or milk. Sometimes vegetables or spices were added. > - flatbread (_pane_). It was the more popular use of grain. The soldiers threshed out the grain, ground it with a device or stone, mixed it with water, salt and spices, and then roasted it over the fire. > > The above food was prepared as part of the _[contubernium](https://imperiumromanum.pl/en/roman-army/units-of-roman-army/contubernium/)_ – a squad of eight men, the smallest unit in the [legion](https://imperiumromanum.pl/en/roman-army/units-of-roman-army/roman-legion/). Barley, in turn, was considered a grain suitable only for animals and barbarians; often, as punishment, soldiers received a ration of barley instead of wheat. > **[Food in Roman army « IMPERIUM ROMANUM](https://imperiumromanum.pl/en/roman-army/food-in-roman-army/amp/)** > > During the march, the Roman soldier had to have his own supplies that allowed him to feed himself for 2-3 days. The rusks, vinegar, and mutton would last for two days, and then the soldier would enjoy bread, wine, and bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/105 "2023-10-28T14:50:49Z")
Oh, great. Thanks. I think … ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/106 "2023-10-28T18:22:38Z")
Why would the vinegar last less long than the wine? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/107 "2023-10-29T05:38:55Z")
The vinegar was probably just part of the recipe. Mutton would probably taste a lot better with a something acidic to temper the fatty taste. So it gets consumed with the mutton rather than needing to be consumed. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/108 "2023-10-29T13:29:20Z")
Ah. That would make sense; and mutton definitely would last less long than bacon. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/109 "2023-10-29T17:19:56Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Colin Fletcher, the guy in the avatar, ate about 1 pound of pure sugar in one form or another daily on his 1958 walk, in addition to regular meals of some sort. 1 pound - about 0.45kg and at 4calories/g about 1800 calories. A decent addition, but nothing spectacular for a walk that maybe demanded at least 4,000 calories a day? I’m going to guess that being on the road, he was not a regular hearty eater exceeding 2,000 calories plus in his meals. > [@Common\_Tater](#): > > That seems pretty high, but OK I recall the number from some analysis of the problems they encountered. It seemed excessively high, but they were pulling loaded sleds, and below about 0F (-17C) snow is not really as slippery, it would start to be like pulling a sled on dirt. (An added complication was their choice of wool gear, which collected moisture that they could not dry out overnight, adding to their misery - and need for calories). ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/110 "2023-10-29T17:34:23Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > I’m going to guess that being on the road, he was not a regular hearty eater exceeding 2,000 calories plus in his meals. He walked the roads sometimes when available, but it was a walk across the length of California including the Mojave desert and the Sierra. He kept a lot of notes, his standard average weekly diet according to him (he carried a week or so worth of food) was 26,790 calories, or 3830 a day. 152 Grams protein and 900 calories of that daily ration from fat. But he carried 1 and 1/2 pounds granulated sugar, a half pound of chocolate, 1 pound 5 ounces of “Kendall Mint Cake”, more pure sugar. 1 Pound dry raisins. Might as well be sugar. Plus 1/2 pound of dry fruit drink mix. Energy bars, and more dehydrated fruit, etc. He carried a lot of sugar. It seems like he knew what he was doing, and he still lost about 20 pounds. He was formerly a Royal Marine during the war, so he knew how to march. In later editions of his book, he claimed that Spirulina tablets were the way to go, and swore off his earlier trail diets, and preached the gospel of “Low Fat”, as was the custom of the times. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/111 "2023-10-29T18:13:29Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Why would the vinegar last less long than the wine? Because it would be drunk as a thirst-quencher… > **[Posca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posca)** > > Posca was an ancient Roman drink made by mixing water, vinegar, and wine. Bracing but less nutritious and palatable than wine, it was typically a drink for soldiers, the lower classes, and slaves. > The word posca is derived from either the Latin potor ("to drink") or from the Greek epoxos ("very sharp"). As the Greeks lacked a word for posca, sources written in Greek, such as the Gospels and Plutarch, use the word οξος (oxos, "vinegar") in its place (translated as acetum in the Vulgate Bible). Th... > **[Roman Posca](https://www.vita-romae.com/roman-posca.html)** > > Information on the Roman posca, what it tasted like, how it was made and who drank it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/112 "2023-10-29T18:26:32Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Because it would be drunk as a thirst-quencher… Thanks for info! But, if it was mixed with wine to form the drink, that doesn’t explain why the wine would last longer than the vinegar. If the vinegar were eaten (or drunk) primarily with the mutton, then it makes sense, because the mutton would need to be eaten before the bacon would; it goes bad faster. But vinegar, itself, doesn’t go bad faster than wine – depending on the wine, it might keep longer. Running out of vinegar/posca before they ran out of wine would only work if they brought enough wine and little enough posca that there was still wine left after the posca was all gone. But why would they do that? The posca was cheaper, and it wouldn’t have been harder to carry than wine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/113 "2023-10-29T18:30:20Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > , if it was mixed with wine to form the drink That’s only one possible recipe, and I don’t think the Wiki one is very common at all. Most posca recipes I know are just vinegar, water, herbs and honey, _no_ wine. The army didn’t always encourage wine drinking, sometimes banned it outright, or restricted it to every second day. See my second link. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/114 "2023-10-29T18:43:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s only one possible recipe Sorry – I realized that and edited the post; but the basic issue still stands. See the edited version. Why would the army have supplied them with enough wine – which the army didn’t really want them to drink – that it would last longer than the supplied amount of posca, which they did want them to drink? It wouldn’t save money. It wouldn’t be easier to carry. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/115 "2023-10-29T19:04:28Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Why would the army have supplied them with enough wine – which the army didn’t really want them to drink – that it would last longer than the supplied amount of posca, which they did want them to drink? I’m just punching around online, but here’s a cite that discusses the eating patterns. If correct, it would seem that the wine was expected to be consumed sporadically; that’s the only reason it perhaps lasted longer. (My bold) > [@](#): > > The Codex Theodosius (7.4.11) dating from 360 states that troops on the move should receive hardtack biscuits (buccellatum), bread, ordinary wine (vinum) and sour wine (acetum), salted pork and mutton. **It seems that hardtack and acetum would be consumed for two days, and on the third day the decent wine and bread would be eaten**. Troops were ordered to collect twenty days rations from the state warehouses before a long campaign, and carry these rations themselves. > > We have other sources which tell us how bleak the marching diet was. Vegetius remarks that soldiers should have “corn (ie. wheat), wine, vinegar and salt at all times”. That wheat ration will have come as hardtack biscuits. The Emperor Hadrian lived the life of a regular soldier for a while (SHA, Hadrian X, 2) and enjoyed “larido, caseo et posca”, which was bacon fat, cheese and sour wine (also called acetum). Ammianus (xvii) also mentions buccellatum. Avidius Cassius, a general who rebelled against Marcus Aurelius, ordered his troops to carry nothing except “laridum ac buccellatum at que acetum”, ie. bacon fat, hardtack and sour wine (Avidius Cassius, v, 3). > **[Legionary Rations](https://earlyworks.weebly.com/legionary-rations.html)** > > EARLYWORKS ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/116 "2023-10-29T19:05:06Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Why would the army have supplied them with enough wine – which the army didn’t really want them to drink – that it would last longer than the supplied amount of posca, which they did want them to drink? It also works if they just drank that much more posca than wine. Which they did. You’re assuming equal amounts of vinegar and wine issued. Where does it say that? What I’ve read says that they ate two days of hardtack and posca, then one day of wine and bread. That wasn’t about what ran out first or anything. It was just the order they were told to consume things in. And on campaign, they took 20 days supply, not just 3. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/117 "2023-10-29T19:58:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’re assuming equal amounts of vinegar and wine issued. Where does it say that? No, I’m assuming that what they would actually do would be to issue mostly posca; with the result that both would run out about the same time. I don’t see why they’d issue only enough posca to last for two days, but enough wine to last longer than that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > What I’ve read says that they ate two days of hardtack and posca, then one day of wine and bread. That wasn’t about what ran out first or anything. It was just the order they were told to consume things in. That would make sense. What I was originally replying to was > [@Moriarty](#): > > The rusks, vinegar, and mutton would last for two days, and then the soldier would enjoy bread, wine, and bacon. (quoted by, not written by, Moriarty) which reads as if the rusks, vinegar, and mutton would run out after two days. If what was actually going on was that they got a treat every third day, and then went back to eating rusks, vinegar, and mutton for the next two, that’s a poorly written sentence; and the article that went with it doesn’t clear it up much; though Moriarty’s later post does. (What’s not cleared up for me is why the mutton would last longer than a couple of days! Maybe it was smoked, dried, or expected to be obtained fresh en route.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/118 "2023-10-29T20:05:13Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > What’s not cleared up for me is why the mutton would last longer than a couple of days! Maybe it was smoked, dried, or expected to be obtained fresh en route. Salted or dried, most probably. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/119 "2023-10-29T20:54:49Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Why would the army have supplied them with enough wine – which the army didn’t really want them to drink Says who? Rum rations, Whisky, grog, a “gill of Spirits” has long been an historical part of basic pay and allowances for soldiers and sailors. There was probably a Roman guy in the army whose only job was making sure everybody got paid their rations. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846/120 "2023-10-29T23:23:57Z")
The army might not have wanted them to drink the wine, exactly – they may have been stuck with it. If wine (or rum, or whisky, or whatever) is considered a normal part of life for most people, then the soldiers will expect it, and will probably get pissed off it they don’t get any (though they might put up with getting less than they want.) An army full of soldiers thoroughly pissed off at those in charge isn’t generally what any country wants. Of course, if it was considered that sort of normal, a certain amount of it was probably considered healthy; though I’m sure the Romans, as well as pretty much everybody by shortly after we figured out how to make the stuff, understood that letting the army drink too much of it was likely to lead to fighting the wrong people and then passing out unable to fight the right ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-cook-their-food/991846.md?page=7)