# Why do humans find certain songs beautiful? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 12, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393 "2004-12-12T02:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/1 "2004-12-12T02:51:40Z")
Background: I was listening to my music collection, and the song Comfortably Numb begins to play. Immedately I begin to cry and in certain parts, I shiver. The Question: What is in music that makes people feel it is so beautiful? Why do we cry upon listening to a certain song? I know that in my case, there are certain chords that trigger emotions in me, and certain keys. It would seem that evolution would have shaved this off, since it looks like this isn’t very good for survival purposes. So why does it happen? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/2 "2004-12-12T03:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I was listening to my music collection, and the song Comfortably Numb begins to play. Immedately I begin to cry and in certain parts, I shiver. I feel the same way about that song. However, many out there would think Pink Floyd sucks. I know someone who works in a fast food restaurant where they constantly blare rap/hip-hop music, and almost all the workers there think Pink Floyd sucks. Most of the workers are black. In fact, this person is planning on filing a racial discrimination complaint partly on that basis. (It actually is much more complex than that. The restaurant (a major fast food chain) is in a heavily white area, but the managers are black. Along with most of the employees now. The managers are apparently doing all sorts of nasty things to the white employees, some overtly discriminatory that have nothing to do with music to force the white employees to quit. Most already have.) He doesn’t feel that the other black employees should have to listen to the music he likes. It is just that he doesn’t feel that he should have to be forced to listen to music he finds obnoxious. [BTW, this guy has nothing against music made by blacks. Recently I visited him and he was playing at home his extensive Ray Charles collection as Ray recently had died. This guy has a huge Motown collection; he in fact grew up in the Detroit area which explains this. His comment to me: "Why don’t black people make good music anymore? :(] The simple answer to your question is it is a matter of taste. Humans are drawn to music. Which music depends on what they learned to love. ---
**Author:** ![SlickRoenick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@SlickRoenick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlickRoenick)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/3 "2004-12-12T03:52:09Z")
> [@DarkSideoftheFloyd](#): > > Background: > > I was listening to my music collection, and the song Comfortably Numb begins to play. Immedately I begin to cry and in certain parts, I shiver. Maybe it reminds you of the movie right when the dude passes out b/c of his rock life style and he’s sort of “dead”? Just a WAG. I’ve never cried before but i do love the crescendo during the “There is no pain, you are receding. . .” chorus. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/4 "2004-12-12T03:54:44Z")
You know, that’s what puzzles me. I’ve never seen the movie (Gonna get it this X-mas) and I still have that reaction to that exact same part, and the part where it goes “The child is grown, the dream is gone” ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/5 "2004-12-12T04:41:56Z")
> [@SlickRoenick](#): > > Maybe it reminds you of the movie right when the dude passes out b/c of his rock life style and he’s sort of “dead”? Just a WAG. I’ve never cried before but i do love the crescendo during the “There is no pain, you are receding. . .” chorus. The song is about opiate abuse. The only connection with a “rock life style” is some rock artists have abused opiates. “Ok. Just a little pinprick. [ping] There’ll be no more --aaaaaahhhhh! But you may feel a little sick.” ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/6 "2004-12-12T05:22:06Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > The song is about opiate abuse. The only connection with a “rock life style” is some rock artists have abused opiates. Have you seen the movie? **SlickRoenick** ’s explanation is the correct one. ---
**Author:** ![Hugh\_Jass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hugh\_Jass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hugh_Jass)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/7 "2004-12-12T06:32:34Z")
> [@DarkSideoftheFloyd](#): > > You know, that’s what puzzles me. I’ve never seen the movie (Gonna get it this X-mas) and I still have that reaction to that exact same part, and the part where it goes “The child is grown, the dream is gone” Well, I can’t answer for all songs, but that line kills me too. It’s a pretty powerful line sung with meaning. I think the loss of innocence is a fairly common lament, and for many people that line sort of expresses it well. It just so happens that something powerful is said in a manner that appeals to your taste in music. Is that what you are asking? Just as a side, “We’re just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl year after year” always saddens me. I’ve battled thoughts of irrelevance at points in my life, so that line sticks with me. “If” is another Floyd song that makes me feel melancholy. I suppose there’s no accounting for taste. Just be glad you have good. Taste, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/8 "2004-12-12T07:49:14Z")
It’s not just Floyd. Pachabel’s _Canon_ can bring me to tears as well, among other classic music. Vivaldi’s _Four Seasons_ is another. And Bizet can get me really pumped up. Both Strausses could make me take up ballroom dance as a hobby. But Pink Floyd does seem to have a higher quotient of emotional catch-phrases in their music and stirring chords in their songs than just about any other band I can think of. I never really appreciated _The Final Cut_ until after the Gulf War, and now I can’t hardly listen to _The Gunner’s Dream_ without losing it. And _Comfortably Numb_ is probably one of my all-time favorite Floyd songs; easily top five. The cut from _Delicate Sound of Thunder_ blows me away. ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/9 "2004-12-12T08:03:56Z")
I think certain songs sound good because they combine the notes you’ve heard your entire life in such a way that is pleasurable or triggers certain feelings or memories or emotions. Think about music from India or Africa - they often sound twangy or just horrible to our ears because they’re played in different keys and their notes aren’t tuned exactly the same (I’ve even heard there’s different scales they used based on something other than 12 notes?). But I bet you that those people find their music beautiful and some of it even brings tears to their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/10 "2004-12-12T08:32:14Z")
Your mental associations are one part of it, another is just the way we respond to certain frequencies- the way notes combines into chords and harmonies, the way a chord progression resolves, that kind of stuff. oIf I knew more about music theory I could probably explain this better, but I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![drhess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/94ad74/32.png) [@drhess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drhess)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/11 "2004-12-12T15:15:50Z")
The Skinnerian answer would be that the music is a stimulus that brings up a positive response you had at the time. Combine this with the inverse shaped U of the “law of optimal stimulation” and you get the idea that some songs provide just enoug complexity that you enjoy them. BUT, once they wear on you, you move onto something else, but still enjoy returning to it as it recalls the good feeling of that period of optimal satisfaction. There’s even a name for this effect: “the oldie but goodie effect.” As to why certain chords and movement between chords are enjoyed as opposed to random noise, I don’t know. I think percussion has a “feel” that is like being in a complex task or chase or hunt or sport. The points in Pink Floyd that you like are where the chords are resolving tension and expanding. Why certain sounds are tense and others resolved, I don’t know. Probably just a cultural decision, hence people not raised on Chinese opera think it sounds awful. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/12 "2004-12-12T15:19:02Z")
My pet theory is that music imitates the non-verbal content of our speech, the stresses and inflections we use to indicate emotional content or significance. And by association we learn to assign meaning to certain standard musical constructions, which differ from genre to genre. So for example a person who’s into classical might get a feeling from a violin crescendo that a rock fan might from a guitar riff. That’s why one person’s music is another’s noise: they speak different musical “languages”. Someday some genius is going to work out a way to translate the intent of a song from one genre to another. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/13 "2004-12-12T17:51:59Z")
I was going to make a thread on this but see no point now. I’m listening to blink 182’s ‘i miss you’ and feel the same way. Maybe music and art are a reflection of what you are going through inside, maybe this reflection allows and outlet for these emotions the same way an empathetic friend is an outlet and an understanding environment for your inner emotions. Thats my theory at least. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/14 "2004-12-12T20:56:53Z")
Scientists are trying to study this right now. Scientific American had an [article](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0006255F-8BAA-1C75-9B81809EC588EF21&sc=I100322) about it. Unfortunately, they basically said they don’t know why exactly music gives us those reactions, but they have been able to determine that when we listen to music we love, the same part of the brain is activated that is used when we eat delicious foods or fall in love. As for my own personal theory, I think that music was a way to convey things that words couldn’t and to form a sense of community. I work in an Indian resturant and we have various night clubs. Last night we had some Indian DJs come and play to an Indian crowd. It was music I had never heard before, but it made me want to tap my food and dance. When I started listening to Indian music, I didn’t like it at first, but now when I watch Indian movies, I often find myself swaying or bobbing my head during the song and dance parts. Some important points from the article: > [@](#): > > Hervé Platel, Jean-Claude Baron and their colleagues at the University of Caen used positron emission tomography (PET) to monitor the effects of changes in pitch. What they found—much to their surprise—was that Brodmann’s areas 18 and 19 in the visual cortex lit up. These areas are better known as the “mind’s eye” because they are, in essence, our imagination’s canvas. Any make-believe picture begins there. Thus, Baron suggests that the brain may create a symbolic image to help it decipher changes in pitch. > > But music goes much deeper than that—below the outer layers of the auditory and visual cortex to the limbic system, which controls our emotions. The emotions generated there produce a number of well-known physiological responses. > [@](#): > > That music strikes such a chord with the limbic system—an ancient part of our brain, evolutionarily speaking, and one that we share with much of the animal kingdom—is no accident, some researchers assert. In another recent paper in Science, Patricia Gray, head of the Biomusic program at the National Academy of the Sciences, and several colleagues from around the country propose that music came into this world long before the human race ever did. “The fact that whale and human music have so much in common even though our evolutionary paths have not intersected for 60 million years,” they write, “suggests that music may predate humans—that rather than being the inventors of music, we are latecomers to the musical scene.” ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/15 "2004-12-12T21:23:08Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Have you seen the movie? **SlickRoenick** ’s explanation is the correct one. Yes, I even own a copy. It just seems to me generic about opiate abuse. Note I have known personally many heroin addicts. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2004, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-find-certain-songs-beautiful/279393/16 "2004-12-12T21:58:07Z")
> [@drhess](#): > > The Skinnerian answer would be that the music is a stimulus that brings up a positive response you had at the time. Combine this with the inverse shaped U of the “law of optimal stimulation” and you get the idea that some songs provide just enoug complexity that you enjoy them. BUT, once they wear on you, you move onto something else, but still enjoy returning to it as it recalls the good feeling of that period of optimal satisfaction. There’s even a name for this effect: “the oldie but goodie effect.” So do you know more about this, or do you know of any sources for information? Because I’m pretty fascinated that people have done studies of how we respond to music over time; I’d love to find out what has been figured out.