# Why do humans have such long lives after the end of their reproductive age? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431 "2024-09-18T13:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/41 "2024-09-20T19:02:34Z")
That’s good, because Henry VII was often described as slender and physically unremarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2024, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/42 "2024-09-20T19:27:48Z")
While we’re noting men fathering children at advanced ages, it might be worth also noting that genetic abnormalities can increase with paternal age: > [@](#): > > … Queen Victoria’s father, Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, was not a haemophiliac, but the mutation may have arisen as a germline mutation within him. **The rate of spontaneous mutation is known to increase with paternal age** (and is higher in fathers than in mothers at all ages); Victoria’s father was 51 at her birth. … [Haemophilia in European royalty - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemophilia_in_European_royalty#:~:text=Queen%20Victoria's%20father%2C%20Prince%20Edward,was%2051%20at%20her%20birth). Of course we’re talking about two separate issues: people aging past their ideal reproductive periods, and male people reproducing at an age that is arguably past their ideal reproductive periods. I remain curious about the comparisons with other mammals that experience menopause: for example, the statistics on average lifespan for those who get to that age. A comparison for the females who do experience that menopause, and males of corresponding age, would be interesting. And why do dogs die so soon after their ‘ideal reproductive years,’ anyway, when arguably they are like humans in being “pack animals”? A lot of our speculation in this thread should apply to dogs (and wolves), too—but apparently it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/43 "2024-09-21T02:23:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I think there is a simpler explanation that @TriPolar already gave in post #7. No “death” gene exists. > > Animals are known to live to extraordinary ages when kept in zoos. That implies that in their natural habitats they die only from outside causes: predators, starvation, diseases. If left alone they just keep on living. While it is true there is no gene for death, there are several biological degredation mechanisms that contribute to what we call aging. I was reading up on the topeic of life extension, sorry I don’t recall all the details. But something like eight processes cause aging, and scientists are working on how to fix all of them, including not just blocking them from occurring, but reversing them. Telemeres on DNA providing limits on cell division is probably the most well-known. Plaques building up in tissues like the brain is another. Anyway, that’s a hijack, but the processes that lead to deterioration mostly don’t occur quickly, but take time. Thus there is a current hard limit on human lifespan beyond talking about life expectancy. Life expectancy is the statistical model based on all means of death. Life span is this aging factor separate from acute infection or trauma. So to put it into the topic of this thread, the question arises what drives menopause, and what controls exist on male reproduction? How are either of those linked to this theory of aging mechanisms? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/44 "2024-09-21T19:45:54Z")
Another thought - I vaguely recall reading that women are born with a finite number of egg cells (or tather, the follicles, in the ovaries) and while there are a lot, the number declines with age, not just from releasing an egg - at menopause none are left. So I guess the question is, what mechanism depletes the number of follicles over time? Why do they depelete completely well before death? (And presumably then, the lack of follicles causes the ovaries to stop producing certain hormones?) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/45 "2024-09-24T11:33:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > “The grandmother hypothesis” is the standard response, but human longevity has evolved in males as well, and a father has less confidence of parenthood: why then do males live long also? Males and females share the vast percentage of their genes. If one has genes that contribute to a long lifespan, then the other likely does too. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/46 "2024-09-24T11:40:28Z")
Well, for a very long time it was exactly like that. There was a time when people who reached forty were considered long in the tooth. That was because people didn’t live much better than animals. Now, in comparison, we eat much better food, we have something called health care, and we understand nutrition. We lose far fewer people to warfare, disease, malnutrition, etc, than we did years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/47 "2024-09-24T12:53:27Z")
Obviously we also have major difference in how those genes are regulated and expressed leading to significantly different forms and physiologies. IF having males live to older ages in the tribe was a net drain on survival of progeny and progeny’s progeny any mutation that killed off males in middle age would be selected for. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/48 "2024-10-08T18:39:55Z")
For instance, killer whales, which also experience menopause, have very different life expectancies for males and females. [Killer Whale | NOAA Fisheries](https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/killer-whale#:~:text=The%20average%20lifespan%20for%20male,10%20and%2013%20years%20old). > The average lifespan for male killer whales is about 30 years, but they can live up to at least 60 years. Females typically live about 50 years, but can live up to at least 90 years in the wild. > … > Killer whales, beluga whales, narwhals, [short-finned pilot whales](https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/short-finned-pilot-whale), and humans are the only known species that go through menopause. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/49 "2024-10-08T19:26:46Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Well, for a very long time it was exactly like that. There was a time when people who reached forty were considered long in the tooth. That was because people didn’t live much better than animals. Now, in comparison, we eat much better food, we have something called health care, and we understand nutrition. We lose far fewer people to warfare, disease, malnutrition, etc, than we did years ago. This is full of modern mythology. In most non-agricultural societies, once one survived childhood there was a good chance to live into one’s sixties and beyond. Most people who lived in agricultural societies suffered from the effects of a monotonous protein-poor diet and continuous heavy labor, so very generally speaking, yes, forty could be quite old. Still is true today is plenty of the world. People living in intact fertile ecosystems ate a more various and nutritious assortment of foods than we do now. That’s just another modern myth. People didn’t live almost as terribly as animals (what animals? tree shrews? iguanas?) They lived like human beings, in cooperative societies. As they do now. And that is why they live long past reproductive age. Because we _pass down knowledge from elders_, and that is where our hope of survival is. Children aren’t plunked down in the forest shortly after weaning and bound away, fully equipped. Even a thirty year old, in a traditional society, is still learning from their elders, and will until they become one themselves, when they in turn will become the repositories of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/50 "2024-10-08T23:28:25Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > The idea that some old goat too old to chase down antelope would appeal to a 22-year-old woman would be something that probably came with the invention of money. But until nowadays, usually young women were traded or sold to those old geezers so “atttraction” was not really a factor for her. And the elderly husbands might not have been doing that much of the actual fathering of “their” children anyway. The young wife’s clandestine combo of old wealthy husband/young healthy lover is a very common matrimonial theme in many traditions. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/51 "2024-10-08T23:40:24Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > So I guess the question is, what mechanism depletes the number of follicles over time? Why do they depelete completely well before death? Apparently [ovarian follicular degeneration (atresia) is actually still not that well understood scientifically:](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259486/) > [@](#): > > The pattern of follicular depletion as well as the factors, timing and mechanisms surrounding both declining oocyte number and oocyte quality remain incompletely understood. Further studies are needed to examine the factors involved and develop predictive models and biomarkers to assist in the management of age-related subfertility. […] > > It is well established that the female foetus possesses her entire quotient of primordial germ cells with a decline initiated and continued from about 16 to 20 weeks of pregnancy [4](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259486/#ref-4). There is no further neo-oogenesis. Follicular loss occurs via ovulation; however, the vast majority of follicles will undergo atresia before reaching ovulation. While preantral and pre-ovulatory follicles rarely undergo atresia, most follicular degeneration occurs at the follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)-dependent, early antral follicle stage […] > > Oocyte quality appears to relate to the decline in the quality of oocyte cytoplasm and increasing nuclear genome abnormalities occurring with age […] It is believed that age-related changes in the meiotic spindle formation and chromosome alignment result in the high rates of oocyte embryo aneuploidy in women of advancing reproductive age […] > > It is proposed that increasing time to resumption of meiosis in women of advancing age results in deterioration in cohesion and increasing segregation errors and aneuploidy. […] > > Much of what is understood regarding oocyte quality is the result of evaluation of oocytes and granulosa cells collected from periovulatory follicles in the context of gonadotrophin stimulation. In women more than 38 years old, the luteinising granulosa cells are less numerous, produce less steroids and glycoproteins and display more mitochondrial damage and mitochondrial DNA deletions. These follicles show less expression of antioxidant enzymes which may contribute to an imbalance of oxidant and antioxidant systems leading to oxidative stress, implicated in subfertility. The timing and mechanism by which these changes arise are poorly understood […] Don’t ask me to understand or explain what any of that means in detail, but I can pretty much make out that its basic message is “we don’t really know, because it’s quite complicated”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431/52 "2024-10-09T00:39:19Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > In most non-agricultural societies, once one survived childhood there was a good chance to live into one’s sixties and beyond. _Some_ chance, not counting medical issues, malnutrition, war, accidents etc. But yeah, a much better chance than living until puberty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-humans-have-such-long-lives-after-the-end-of-their-reproductive-age/1007431.md?page=2)