# Why do hypotheticals that push people's comfort zones piss people off? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592 "2018-05-04T17:57:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/81 "2018-05-07T02:23:10Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > So it’s just me that finds this sort of stalking to be creepy? Doing a quick search of someone’s posts is considered stalking now? :dubious: If that’s the case, then we’re all in trouble. Call out the restraining orders! ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/82 "2018-05-07T02:32:32Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > Are you kidding me? You’re serious? Holy fuck, you’re serious. > > How in fuck’s name is doing a 5 second search for threads started by Skald, skimming some OPs, and posting the links to cite your argument (don’t we encourage being able to back up our claims around here?), somehow worse than frequent, gratuitous mentions of rape, degradation, and sexual assault of attractive women? (Ever notice that girl characters that have been raped or somehow degraded in his made up stories are always attractive, amazing, awesome women?) > > Doing a search is creepy. Frequent, gratuitous, masturbatory mentions of degrading women - it’s cool. > > Jesus Christ, some of you. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/83 "2018-05-07T04:52:07Z")
Go ahead and do a search that cross-references my username with the word “rape” and see if it comes anywhere near as many hits as the same search would result with the user name “Skald the Rhymer”. This post excluded. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/84 "2018-05-07T07:59:02Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > And just to make it clear for people who don’t want to click the links labeled ‘rape’ (most of which do not actually contain rape), this is an example of what people are referring to as\*\* "gratuitous rape or other pornographic scenes that denigrate women, and the people who get off on them.\*\*: Bolding mine because it’s my quote. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/85 "2018-05-07T08:50:04Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > And just to make it clear for people who don’t want to click the links labeled ‘rape’ (most of which do not actually contain rape), this is an example of what people are referring to as "gratuitous rape or other pornographic scenes that denigrate women, and the people who get off on them. I’m not normally a big fan of the quote-parsing, but it’s needed here: > [@Skald](#): > > In particular, she shot a gonzo scene in which she not only was verbally and physically abused by the director and male models on camera, but also confessed to having been molested by a funny uncle when she was much younger. Eliciting this confession from her — and making her call her mail co-stars "Uncle " while she cried— was the highlight of the scene. Doesn’t actually say her “funny” uncle actually raped her _per se_, I suppose, so presumably OK. > [@Skald](#): > > So it came to pass that one night she was in an alley behind a bar with a guy who liked his girls bloody and weeping rather than tipsy and willing. Really, it was only \* attempted\* rape. > [@Skald](#): > > “No way I’m gonna watch my sister marry Mandingo. I’d probably get raped by one of her gorilla in-laws.” Features discussion of rape. > [@Skald](#): > > She admits they were legally married, but says his account of wedded bliss is bullshit; all she ever was to him was a punching bag, rape victim, and occasional an ashtray. Features rape. > [@Skald](#): > > Sean remarks that you really should have sex with him just once if he saves you… If you want him to continue risking his life to save yours, youhave to agree to make the beast with two backs with him. Lacking options, you agree. Features coercive sex. I’m not a lawyer, but reasonably sure this isn’t consent. > [@Skald](#): > > Cheking out the URL, she found it was porn – of a sort. Anything directly sexuall she would have rured down, as she is as chaste as a nun. But this was BDSM. No, make that just BDS. The girls on the site get whipped, and everything about the site makes it clear that they don’t enjoy it even a smidge; the fact they’re desperate and suffering is the point. I’m starting to feel dirty just C&Ping this stuff. Fine, it’s not fucking rape, it’s only fucking degradation, humiliation and sexual fucking assault. Hoo-fucking-ray. > [@Skald the Redacted](#): > > Again using myself as an example: I’m planning to vote for Secretary Clinton. Now I could say that, if she were proven to be an accomplice in Bill Cosby’s rapes, I’d become a Sanders supporter – but of course, not even Rush Limbaugh has accused her of that. But while I don’t care about her tolerating her husband’s infidelities, if it was proven to me that (a) Bill Clinton had actually committed a rape, and (b) Sec. Clinton had participated in a cover-up of that fact, I’d switch candidates. Does so fucking feature rape. Twice. > [@Skald](#): > > Fir some months now, a sadistic homophobic bitch has been abducting boy-whores in a nearby city, taking them to various hideaways, and torturing them for hours before releasing them, leaving them traumatized and emasculated but breathing ; in fact, she goes out of her way to keep them alive, on account of dead people not suffering any more. Features “Fuck, I don’t need this shit in my head”. > [@](#): > > This is an example of what people are referring to as “gratuitous rape or other pornographic scenes that denigrate women, and the people who get off on them.” And you’re disputing this, are you? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/86 "2018-05-07T11:00:19Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Or, conversely, you could say to yourself "How simple it is to not read what you find off-putting, disturbing or squicky. " rather than stifling people’s discussion of cheese.\* > \*Since when are cheese discussions in general “disturbing crap that many people don’t want to read”\*\*? > > \*\*Unless you’re talking about that maggot-cheese…um…Casu marzu. Now _that_ shit is nasty. But even then, it’s apparently simple not to read it, right? “The cheese stands alone” can be a trigger for people who suffered bullying as children. But oh, a good, runny Brie is pure heaven. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/87 "2018-05-07T11:03:17Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > I would just like it noted that my hypothetical did not give me a boner Made ya look! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/88 "2018-05-07T12:09:06Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > I figure if I push someone out of their comfort zone they’ll return the favor and push me out of mine. Call me crazy, but I like it when I’m forced to re-examine my preconceptions. I’ve always liked that about you as a poster–sometimes a little freaky, but I don’t recall you getting judgmental on folks who are different from you. There are a lot of folks here who are quite comfortably nestled in their tapestry of socially-acceptable positions and contingencies, and they find it tiresome to explore contradictory positions or, heaven forbid, patiently help someone else along to these same good conclusions. Those people strike me as tedious and unimaginative, and I find their smug attacks on the moral explorers among us remarkably distasteful. Yeah, Skald is an imperfect nutter at times, but he’s not on my radar as a condescending prick. For whatever my evaluation is worth. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/89 "2018-05-07T12:48:16Z")
Okay, “moral explorers.” Sure, why not. I thought it was a creepy guy jerking off in his basement, didn’t know he was exploring the human psyche. Quick question, why do you think he spends so much time exploring women being raped and not, you know all the rest of human experience? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/90 "2018-05-07T13:01:02Z")
OK, I’ll bite. Maybe Skald can work through 98% of what drifts through his mind on his own, but he needs some feedback on the rest? Not “Is X an immoral thing?” so much as “On the scale of [burn in Hell] to [Just Icky], where does X lie?” As for why this particular topic interests him, I suppose that’s his business and he can share it if he wants. Maybe he’s got an imagination that takes him to places he doesn’t care to visit, or maybe he’s seen some really messed up life, or maybe he’s just having a wank at our expense. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/91 "2018-05-07T14:28:54Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > True as far as it goes, but when the scenario is repeated variations on “If there were a nuclear bomb set to go off in New York, and the only way to get the information to defuse it is to rape a woman, would you do it? What position? Would you use a gag, or just listen to her cry?”, you start to wonder if the guy asking is all that interested in the bomb part of the question at all. > [@Penfeather](#): > > And that’s just a cursory skim over threads he’s started in the past two years in which he wants to discuss stories he’s concocted which feature rape > [@Penfeather](#): > > And you’re disputing this, are you? Yes, I am disputing that the threads you linked fit either of the two characterizations above. I’m not disputing that the word ‘rape’ is used in some of them, but your milder claim is that they are “stories he’s concocted which feature rape”, not merely that the word or concept of rape turns up in them. Your more extreme claim, the first one, is that Skald posts scenarios that are variations on a theme of ‘in this hypothetical, you have to rape someone to get a good result, would you do it and what techniques would you use’, and none of your examples are remotely close to that. A hypothetical about how the reader would respond to a virulent racist in which part of the racist’s characterization is that they make a statement typical of racists that includes the racial stereotype that blacks rape indiscriminately is simply not a story that features rape. There isn’t any rape that happens in the story, and the feature of the story is clearly the fact that the person is racist, with the comment serving as characterization. It’s most certainly not a hypothetical about a situation in which the reader is given ‘would you rape this person’ as a choice, or in which techniques for same are asked. A question about what would prompt the reader not to vote for a candidate where the writer references two public rape allegations (one in the news, one which was in the news two decades ago) where the writer mentions that the candidate being involved in covering up is simply not ‘a story he concocted featuring rape’. It’s a discussion of actual events that have been reported in the news - even if you want to use the word ‘story’, it’s not a story that ‘he concocted.’ And the jump from ‘I wouldn’t vote for a candidate involved in covering up a rape’ to ‘this is a hypothetical where the reader is expected to decide whether or not to rape someone, and then asked about techniques’ is simply completely absurd. Skald’s hypotheticals touch on a lot of dark topics, and people are certainly free to not like them. But the characterization of him as a deranged basement-dweller posting rape fantasies disguised as hypotheticals while jerking off to the idea of people reading them doesn’t seem to be based in reality, but only in the minds of certain posters. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/92 "2018-05-07T14:45:03Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I know that this is IMHO, and so the title question is practically rhetorical, but [here are some thought-provoking observations on the subject.](http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe) > [@BigT](#): > > The underlying message is useful, but I feel it fails in two respects: > > 1. The reader is primed to not believe what they are reading, since you were flat out told you have a good reason not to believe it. As such, I didn’t believe either statement. > \*\*2. This was compounded by the fact that none of the statements had anything backing them up. \*\* > > My reaction to the slave teeth was different, but I still disbelieved both equally. I knew Washington didn’t have wooden teeth, but that’s it. > > I also didn’t have any problem with any of the other statements, because none of them are things I hadn’t already learned. That I learned them with little fuss suggests there is a way around these effects. 😕 Huh? Every panel that contained a “little-known fact” had either two or three links to statements backing them up. Maybe you didn’t recognize them as links because they weren’t in underlined blue text, but were little ovals labeled “\*SOURCE #”. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/93 "2018-05-07T15:00:58Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > OK, I’ll bite. Maybe Skald can work through 98% of what drifts through his mind on his own, but he needs some feedback on the rest? Not “Is X an immoral thing?” so much as “On the scale of [burn in Hell] to [Just Icky], where does X lie?” As for why this particular topic interests him, I suppose that’s his business and he can share it if he wants. Maybe he’s got an imagination that takes him to places he doesn’t care to visit, or maybe he’s seen some really messed up life, or maybe he’s just having a wank at our expense. He’s a moral explorer! It’s like if Lewis and Clark decided that instead of exploring North America, they decided to stay in camp and gang rape Sacagawea. He’s a hero, really. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/94 "2018-05-07T15:29:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > He’s a moral explorer! It’s like if Lewis and Clark decided that instead of exploring North America, they decided to stay in camp and gang rape Sacagawea. He’s a hero, really. I would think more along the lines of L&C doing a survey of terrain, wildlife, resources, and indigenous peoples, and trying to decide whether their report would be valuable on its face, or if it could instead be used to determine whether the resources were worth exploiting in terms of infrastructure and the cost of white lives in subduing/exterminating the natives–and trying to gauge the net morality of the expedition. Given how things turned out, it may have been best for all involved if they had just stayed back at camp with Sacagawea and left The West a mystery, but they didn’t have the benefit of a message board stuffed with the ethically astute flower of morality to berate any such inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/95 "2018-05-07T15:42:20Z")
Let’s just drop the whole trope of these hypotheticals being any kind of genuine intellectual or philosophical enquiry. Like 'em or don’t, but there’s no research question here and Skady isn’t taking furious notes for some treatise. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/96 "2018-05-07T17:04:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Yes, I am disputing that the threads you linked fit either of the two characterizations above. I’m not disputing that the word ‘rape’ is used in some of them, but your milder claim is that they are “stories he’s concocted which feature rape”, not merely that the word or concept of rape turns up in them. Your more extreme claim, the first one, is that Skald posts scenarios that are variations on a theme of ‘in this hypothetical, you have to rape someone to get a good result, would you do it and what techniques would you use’, and none of your examples are remotely close to that.(snip) I’m glad some people can read. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/97 "2018-05-07T17:12:21Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If someone apologizes and stops doing the thing that offended you, you should accept it, not looking a decade later for proof they are still a horrible person. Would you mind providing a link to **Skald** ’s apology post? I can’t seem to find it. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/98 "2018-05-07T18:44:41Z")
Good lord, the lengths that some of you are willing to go to to rationalize away any of what’s been brought up is mind boggling. Some Dopers really do prefer fantasy over facts. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/99 "2018-05-07T20:37:54Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > There are a lot of folks here who are quite comfortably nestled in their tapestry of socially-acceptable positions and contingencies… Like “Rape is bad”? ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592/100 "2018-05-07T21:30:39Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I would think more along the lines of L&C doing a survey of terrain, wildlife, resources, and indigenous peoples, and trying to decide whether their report would be valuable on its face, or if it could instead be used to determine whether the resources were worth exploiting in terms of infrastructure and the cost of white lives in subduing/exterminating the natives–and trying to gauge the net morality of the expedition. Given how things turned out, it may have been best for all involved if they had just stayed back at camp with Sacagawea and left The West a mystery, but they didn’t have the benefit of a message board stuffed with the ethically astute flower of morality to berate any such inquiries. Good grief. What pedantic horseshit. Condemning rape, degradation, and assault isn’t a morally superior position, it’s the position of decent humans. You can use all the ostentatious language you want, but good luck convincing me or a number of others that **Skald** is some kind of “moral explorer”. If he is, why doesn’t he morally explore subjects that don’t include the maltreatment of women? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-hypotheticals-that-push-peoples-comfort-zones-piss-people-off/813592.md?page=6)