# Why do I believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073 "2014-04-26T20:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/81 "2014-04-27T05:11:11Z")
Ok. So basically there’s nothing concrete, you just don’t see how there could be nothing out there guiding everything. ---
**Author:** ![randompattern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@randompattern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randompattern)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/82 "2014-04-27T05:15:08Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > The point is that “random” is often really only “pseudorandom” and what we perceive as “random” may not be truly random after all. Are you saying that random could have a pattern? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/83 "2014-04-27T05:18:47Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Ok. So basically there’s nothing concrete, you just don’t see how there could be nothing out there guiding everything. Yes there is something concrete. God is real and YOU are real. If nothing else, that is concrete. It seems like you don’t want to take any responsibility for your own life or your own actions. Answer this question: What if you are 100% responsible for EVERYTHING that has ever happened in your own life? Most people won’t even approach that question because they don’t want that much responsibility. Most people think “Life’s Not Fair”. They want to blame anyone or anything else other than themselves: It’s my “parents’” fault, it’s the “government’s” fault, it’s the fault of an “angry God”. But what if it is “fair”? What if you ARE 100% responsible for everything that ever has or ever will happen to you? Answer that question! That is concrete! ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/84 "2014-04-27T05:20:39Z")
> [@randompattern](#): > > Are you saying that random could have a pattern? > 😃 TRULY random does not have pattern. But at what point does “random” become “pseudorandom”? At what point can you say there is not a pattern or there is? That’s a very fine line – how do you measure TRUE randomness? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/85 "2014-04-27T05:21:36Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > As I have already posted… > > It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a theist. > God really doesn’t care if you believe in God or not. > God only cares how you live your life. We can live our lives in countless ways. How do we know which God wants, if he is invisible? If I die and meet God (unlikely) my first question will be “So, you couldn’t call us once in a while? Maybe on Sunday afternoon? What, you can’t afford the phone bill?” In your system the laws we are supposed to live by are locked in a filing cabinet in the basement of the cosmic courthouse, and we get penalized for not living by them. I’ll take no God at all, thanks. Much more moral. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/86 "2014-04-27T05:25:53Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > Yes, basically I believe in the idea of Karma. But I don’t think you do, by your own statements. You talk of being judged by God - karma needs no judge any more than gravity does. There’s only two reasonable ways to go, either a God decides or karma inevitably proceeds. The other ludicrous option is that we have a God bound by the laws of karma. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/87 "2014-04-27T05:26:12Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > It leads me to believe in God because I don’t believe that our lives are ultimately the result of “random” forces. > > I am a computer programmer. > As a computer programmer, I can (and have) write a program that is mostly random but generates results within predefined parameters (that I have chosen). > > Maybe I’ve been smoking too much (ha!) but that is a perfect analogy of the Universe to me. Those “parameters” to which I refer are analogous to the Gravitational Constant, Absolute Zero and the Planck Constant. > > Those are just analogies so don’t take them too literally. > The point is that “random” is often really only “pseudorandom” and what we perceive as “random” may not be truly random after all. > > Yes, I believe in Darwinism but even Darwinism is only an algorithmic process. But I don’t believe that the Human Experience is purely an algorithmic process. The standard rng is in fact pseudo-random, as we all know. Do people read Knuth any more? But you can create a truly random one if you wish to, by going to the physical world. A lot harder to debug though. Quantum theory shows us that some things are truly random. So, God does play dice. Really hugely many-sided dice. And evolution is not an algorithm, it is a search space problem, and a heuristic. That is why GAs and simulated annealing don’t always find the best answer. Neither does evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/88 "2014-04-27T05:26:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > We can live our lives in countless ways. How do we know which God wants, if he is invisible? > > If I die and meet God (unlikely) my first question will be “So, you couldn’t call us once in a while? Maybe on Sunday afternoon? What, you can’t afford the phone bill?” > > In your system the laws we are supposed to live by are locked in a filing cabinet in the basement of the cosmic courthouse, and we get penalized for not living by them. > > I’ll take no God at all, thanks. Much more moral. No. You live by YOUR own rules, you live by YOUR own laws. But there are consequences for your actions, whether you like them or not. “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.” Most people simply don’t want to take responsibility for their own lives. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/89 "2014-04-27T05:28:32Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > I am not strictly a Buddhist per se. > Buddhism is the most “convenient” form of Religion that I identify with but I have my own beliefs. > It’s just that Buddhism is easy for me to tell people when they ask what Religion I believe. > > As I have already stated, I agree with tenets from Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity, with smatterings of my own experiences. > > “Find your own path” is my most basic Religious belief. Can you tell us what tenets of Buddhism you do embrace? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/90 "2014-04-27T05:28:57Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > Yes there is something concrete. > God is real and YOU are real. > > If nothing else, that is concrete. You have yet to show that there is a god. I see no reason to answer your question until you prove that the central bit of your argument is true. ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/91 "2014-04-27T05:29:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > But I don’t think you do, by your own statements. You talk of being judged by God - karma needs no judge any more than gravity does. There’s only two reasonable ways to go, either a God decides or karma inevitably proceeds. The other ludicrous option is that we have a God bound by the laws of karma. And who (or what) created Karma? ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/92 "2014-04-27T05:30:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Can you tell us what tenets of Buddhism you do embrace? Most closely, Zen. But again, I am not strictly a (Zen) Buddhist. I extract what I “resonate” with from any Religion and find my own way. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/93 "2014-04-27T05:31:17Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > And who (or what) created Karma? You tell me! Could God on a whim tomorrow say up is down, good is evil? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/94 "2014-04-27T05:33:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > The other ludicrous option is that we have a God bound by the laws of karma. How would that be ludicrous? If God exist(ed), he would be bound by Spiritual Laws that pervade the Multiverse – why not the greatest spiritual law in existence? 🆒 > [@Nederwiet420](#): > > And who (or what) created Karma? [Turtles](http://cosmology.carnegiescience.edu/timeline/1610/turtles-all-the-way-down), probably. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/95 "2014-04-27T05:34:59Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > And who (or what) created Karma? No one. It doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/96 "2014-04-27T05:38:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You tell me! Could God on a whim tomorrow say up is down, good is evil? No. There is no “good” or “evil”. YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE. As I’ve already stated, if you help people when you can, if you don’t infringe on other people’s Freewill actions, you can live your life however you want. But if you murder or rape others – if you infringe on their Free Will – you will answer for that. Contrarians will argue, “What if I _WANT_ someone to rape me?” If that is truly your Freewill choice, there are no consequences because you chose it. But the vast majority of murder/rape/violence victims DO NOT choose it. ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/97 "2014-04-27T05:40:21Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > No one. It doesn’t exist. You had better be right! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nederwiet420](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e4f/32.png) [@Nederwiet420](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nederwiet420)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/98 "2014-04-27T05:42:19Z")
Goodnight all. I’m signing off for tonight. I may or may not be back tomorrow. OM TAT SAT! Namaste. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/99 "2014-04-27T05:44:45Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > How would that be ludicrous? If God exist(ed), he would be bound by Spiritual Laws that pervade the Multiverse – why not the greatest spiritual law in existence? A capital “G” god would not be bound by anything, that’s the ludicrous part. The only meeting ground is where God IS the law/karma. Deist/watchmaker concept. But karma is not a thinking entity, it’s akin, as I said, to gravity. If that was the sort of God we have, then he stopped being a god the moment he set the karma laws in place. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/100 "2014-04-27T05:47:00Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > No. > There is no “good” or “evil”. > > YOU GET WHAT YOU GIVE. > > As I’ve already stated, if you help people when you can, if you don’t infringe on other people’s Freewill actions, you can live your life however you want. > > But if you murder or rape others – if you infringe on their Free Will – you will answer for that. > > Contrarians will argue, “What if I _WANT_ someone to rape me?” > If that is truly your Freewill choice, there are no consequences because you chose it. > > But the vast majority of murder/rape/violence victims DO NOT choose it. This particular contrarian asks: what if God decided that rape was cool. What if he decided rapists get to rape in the afterlife? Can he do that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073.md?page=6)