# Why do I believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073 "2014-04-26T20:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/101 "2014-04-27T07:00:55Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > You meet God… > God: Here I am. You’ve been denying me your whole life, you’ve been ridiculing me your whole life. Well, here I am – say it to my face! > You: Come on man, be cool dude! I was just going by what I was taught. Science. Physics. They said you don’t exist! Come on man, I’m not a bad person! > God: Let’s take a look at your life. > You: Aw dude. Come on man! I didn’t think it would ever get to this point. > > It is not “retribution”. > You made your own choices and you are responsible for your own choices. > > Take responsibility for your own life and your own actions. > That is all I am saying. That > [@Nederwiet420](#): > > It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a theist. > God really doesn’t care if you believe in God or not. > God only cares how you live your life. is distinctly at odds with this. You are living your life as a good person because you fear the sky pixie will do nasty things to you when you are dead. Congratulations you are behaving like an immoral dirtbag. Good people don’t do good things because they expect candy and bunnies, they do good things because thats what good people do. The second you put a gun to someones head and threaten them with punishment ALL of their moral actions from that point on become a lie. You are spouting the same nonsense that pretty much all the believers in an after life spout. > [@Nederwiet420](#): > > You had better be right! You believe all of these things without the slightest shred of evidence and then drop Pascals wager into the mix? hows this, If you are wrong (and that is what all the available evidence says) then you are throwing away your one single life for no other reason than an illogical belief in some random bullshit. If you have children it gets even worse if you manage to infect them with your silliness because now you are throwing away multiple lifetimes on the same unfounded nonsense. I know you believe you are right about this, and sadly the human monkey is easily fooled by his own thoughts. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/102 "2014-04-27T09:27:22Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > It is not “scolding”, it is not “reward”, it is not “retribution”. > > To put it as simply as I can, I believe that when you die, everything that you have ever done to everyone else is done to YOU. > > You don’t have to be a “saint”, you don’t have to be a “martyr”, you don’t have to live by any “holy sacrament”. > > If you were basically a kind person and you helped people when you could, you get to experience all that gratitude and compassion. > > And if you were a murderer or a rapist, you get to experience all of that too. > > It’s all based on YOUR ACTIONS!!! I feel it’s worth pointing out that if you believe this, it’s a direct logical conclusion that any form of law enforcement is immoral. After all, if you punish someone for raping, and God’s going to do that anyways, then you’re administering a doubled-up punishment, and that’s incredibly unjust. However, if your beliefs (for which there is absolutely no evidence, no reason to believe whatsoever) are wrong, then not punishing them is unjust. Speaking of evidence, do you have any? Any reason, whatsoever, for us to believe any of this? Because looking at your OP and trying to break it down into logical syllogism, what I see is a huge number of absolutely unjustified assumptions which I see no reason to accept. There is literally no reason for any of us to believe what you’re saying. Hell, I don’t even understand why _you_ believe it - the reason you’ve provided seems to be “because it makes me happy”. That’s not a good reason to believe something. Please, when come back, provide evidence. Or, if you’re just interested in witnessing, and nothing more… don’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/103 "2014-04-27T18:56:56Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > I extract what I “resonate” with from any Religion and find my own way. Then where does God fit in if you’re choosing what you want to believe? Shouldn’t you be believing in what God wants even if it’s something you personally don’t want to believe in? If your religion is just whatever you want to believe then God is irrelevant in your religion. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/104 "2014-04-27T19:03:06Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > You meet God… > God: Here I am. You’ve been denying me your whole life, you’ve been ridiculing me your whole life. Well, here I am – say it to my face! > You: Come on man, be cool dude! I was just going by what I was taught. Science. Physics. They said you don’t exist! Come on man, I’m not a bad person! > God: Let’s take a look at your life. > You: Aw dude. Come on man! I didn’t think it would ever get to this point. What happens if you have this encounter? God: Did you use science like I wanted you to? You: Science? I thought you wanted me to follow religion. God: Religion? That’s just a bunch of stuff made up by other fallible people like yourself. That’s why it’s so full of contradictions. Anyone can write a book. I created the universe. That’s reality. If you wanted know me, you should have been studying the way the universe worked. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/105 "2014-04-27T20:13:06Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > You believe all of these things without the slightest shred of evidence and then drop Pascals wager into the mix? hows this, If you are wrong (and that is what all the available evidence says) then you are throwing away your one single life for no other reason than an illogical belief in some random bullshit. If you have children it gets even worse if you manage to infect them with your silliness because now you are throwing away multiple lifetimes on the same unfounded nonsense. I know you believe you are right about this, and sadly the human monkey is easily fooled by his own thoughts. > > Have a nice day. Carl Sagan’s daughter shares this story. Emphasis mine. One day when I was still very young, I asked my father about his parents. I knew my maternal grandparents intimately, but I wanted to know why I had never met his parents. \*\*\* “Because they died,” he said wistfully.\*\*\* “Will you ever see them again?” I asked. He considered his answer carefully. Finally, he said that there was nothing he would like more in the world than to see his mother and father again, but that he had _ **no reason — and no evidence — to support the idea of an afterlife, so he couldn’t give in to the temptation** _. “Why?” _ **Then he told me, very tenderly, that it can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true.** _ You can get tricked if you don’t question yourself and others, especially people in a position of authority. He told me that anything that’s truly real can stand up to scrutiny. > **[Lessons of Immortality and Mortality From My Father, Carl Sagan](https://www.thecut.com/2014/04/my-dad-and-the-cosmos.html)** > > Learning about mortality and immortality from my father, Carl Sagan.  ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/106 "2014-04-27T21:51:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What happens if you have this encounter? > > God: Did you use science like I wanted you to? > You: Science? I thought you wanted me to follow religion. > God: Religion? That’s just a bunch of stuff made up by other fallible people like yourself. That’s why it’s so full of contradictions. Anyone can write a book. I created the universe. That’s reality. If you wanted know me, you should have been studying the way the universe worked. I liked the Louis CK bit. paraphrased: God: “What? I created this big awesome Universe and you expected me to build another awesome place for after you die? You’re a bunch of greedy pigs down there.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/107 "2014-04-27T23:27:26Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > No. > > You live by YOUR own rules, you live by YOUR own laws. > But there are consequences for your actions, whether you like them or not. > “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.” > > Most people simply don’t want to take responsibility for their own lives. None of which have anything to do with God. When I do stuff I have some clue as to the consequences in this world. None in the next. Was your Bible written by Kafka by any chance? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/108 "2014-04-27T23:59:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I liked the Louis CK bit. paraphrased: > > God: “What? I created this big awesome Universe and you expected me to build another awesome place for after you die? You’re a bunch of greedy pigs down there.” The universe, as a human, rather sucks and is mostly inaccessible anyway. And the fact that we die in the first place is a criticism of God’s supposed workmanship. Just picture God calling someone dying of agony from cancer a “greedy pig”. The claim that God created the universe and us is more of a condemnation of God than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/109 "2014-04-28T00:01:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The universe, as a human, rather sucks and is mostly inaccessible anyway. And the fact that we die in the first place is a criticism of God’s supposed workmanship. Just picture God calling someone dying of agony from cancer a “greedy pig”. > > The claim that God created the universe and us is more of a condemnation of God than anything else. Lighten up, Francis. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/110 "2014-04-28T00:48:48Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > It leads me to believe in God because I don’t believe that our lives are ultimately the result of “random” forces. > > I am a computer programmer. > As a computer programmer, I can (and have) write a program that is mostly random but generates results within predefined parameters (that I have chosen). > > Maybe I’ve been smoking too much (ha!) but that is a perfect analogy of the Universe to me. Those “parameters” to which I refer are analogous to the Gravitational Constant, Absolute Zero and the Planck Constant. > > Those are just analogies so don’t take them too literally. > The point is that “random” is often really only “pseudorandom” and what we perceive as “random” may not be truly random after all. > > Yes, I believe in Darwinism but even Darwinism is only an algorithmic process. But I don’t believe that the Human Experience is purely an algorithmic process. Right, and I’m an engineer of the electrical variety. As such, I am inclined to see design everywhere, even where there is absence of evidence. But I have done enough study outside of my field to understand the rationale behind the claims of the other sciences. As someone once said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where’s yours? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/112 "2014-04-28T06:18:31Z")
> [@MaryPennington](#): > > Do you think believing God is a nonsense? There are StudyGeek saying if you are not believing in God where you now? the words are in english… ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/113 "2014-04-28T06:24:20Z")
> [@MaryPennington](#): > > Do you think believing God is a nonsense? There are StudyGeek saying if you are not believing in God where you now? Could you try that again? I have no idea what you’re trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/114 "2014-04-28T06:53:23Z")
Mary is trying to say that she has a keen interest in including references to certain websites in her posts. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/115 "2014-04-28T07:08:38Z")
> [@MaryPennington](#): > > Do you think believing God is a nonsense? Pretty sure he’s saying that the OP’s argument is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/116 "2014-04-28T08:07:22Z")
I must say… reading the OP’s posts explains the username he chose. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/117 "2014-04-28T17:19:46Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > It has nothing to do with being an atheist or a theist. > God really doesn’t care if you believe in God or not. And yet your hypothetical dead-atheist-meets-God conversation starts off with… > [@Nederwiet420](#): > > God: Here I am. You’ve been denying me your whole life, you’ve been ridiculing me your whole life. Well, here I am – say it to my face! Odd opener for someone who doesn’t care if you believe or not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/118 "2014-04-28T20:18:04Z")
Just to echo Critical1, the OP proposes a god who believes that two wrongs make a right, or perhaps an inverted Golden Rule. That is, do unto others exactly as they have done to you. Cool. I’m more moral than god! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/119 "2014-04-28T20:25:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Just to echo Critical1, the OP proposes a god who believes that two wrongs make a right, or perhaps an inverted Golden Rule. That is, do unto others exactly as they have done to you. > > Cool. I’m more moral than god! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a posited god who was more moral than the average person. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/120 "2014-04-28T20:32:15Z")
> [@Nederwiet420](#): > > I never said my position was “more correct” than anyone’s. I am simply trying to put into words why I believe in God. Prepare to be disappointed… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073/121 "2014-04-28T20:36:33Z")
The OP may be almost completely derivative and cliche, but at least he came up with the novel and clever twist that you are better off betting that god exists, or you will be sorry in the end. He should come up with a clever shorthand for that. Given his programming background, maybe something like… The C++ Gamble? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-believe-in-god/687073.md?page=7)