To expand on what I wrote in a previous post, I think you can make a strong biblical argument that God wanted man to be a scientist.
Look at the first thing God told man to do: “Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.” God wanted man to study and identify animals. This is basic taxonomy. Studying and cataloging nature is the first step in science.
And what did man do that angered God? He ate from the tree of knowledge. This was knowledge the easy way. It was cheating - the equivalent of looking up the answers in the back of the book. God had wanted man to earn his knowledge by learning not by being told the answers.
I see exactly what you did there and it makes me wish this forum had a rep system.
Seriously though, OP, none of what you’re saying is new. It’s just old ideas in a new-agey package.
…Although you probably aren’t coming back, so I figure a few good programming language jokes are the best coming out of this thread in the near future.
If God’s so freaking smart - maybe he should have considered
a) not planting that particular tree in the first place
b) planting that tree somewhere else
c) not telling them not to eat of that particular tree - I mean after all, when was the last time telling someone “not” to do something actually worked - especially when we’re talking about curious, nieve kids that while they trust the parent, really don’t understand what “good/bad” is…
Anything beyond, “I believe there is a god” is absolute speculation on your part. You cannot know if this god actually exists or if he/she wants you to be accountable for your actions. There may be a god who wants you to be as much like Hitler as possible, or there could be a god who wants you to dine on your own feces until you collapse and die, you simply cannot know.
And that’s fine, in and of itself. You are free to believe whatever you like, but…
But…
The moment you begin to admonish, preach, caution or even so much as POST to anyone else regarding your purely speculative god, you are overstepping. This leads to other things like attempting to get your speculative god taught to my children in schools, attempting to get a tax break for it or attempting to create or change laws in your speculative god’s favor. Today, you will receive push-back for this. Then you will answer this push-back with, “Why can’t I just believe what I want and be left alone?”
Here’s why: Until you understand the concept of believing what you believe and leaving everyone else out of it (we should never even hear of it, because your belief should be 100% internal), you will not be left alone.
Way, way too many lives have been destroyed throughout human history beginning with, “I believe there is a god, and my god wants…”
If you really want to know whether or not your god exists, ask him. It never fails.
Most of us are reasonably comfortable with that minor degree of compromise.
Not taxing any church allows the government to avoid having to make official declarations of which churches are “valid.”
Ideally, in return, the churches would avoid excessive partisan political activity, but they don’t seem eager to keep up their part of the bargain. Even so, throwing away the compromise entirely would entail a degree of governmental interference in matters of faith that most of us don’t see any benefit from.
In the other matters you refer to, total agreement: they must not be allowed to get their dogmas taught in public schools, nor have their dietary rules made into actual laws, etc.
This thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with this forum.
The thread was not posted as a debate topic. It is witnessing, and though it is in the “correct” forum for witnessing threads, IMO this is the worst forum for them.
The thread has not claimed that the stated reasons are in any way superior to other reasons either for or against the existence of a God. The OP does not want to debate anyone about the validity of his reasons.
Yet here the thread lies in a place where just about everyone else assumes the intent is to debate reasons for God, or to proclaim the reasons and insist they are unassailable. And so the pile-on begins.
I feel in my heart of hearts that there is no God, but I’ve been wrong about a lot simpler stuff than that. Meanwhile, I do the best I can with what I think. I choose to be a decent human for no other reason than I choose it: that’s what works for me. I confess I feel kind of bad for people who have to have a better reason than that, “but to each his or her own,” as they say.
My guess is that people who are certain about this stuff are fooling themselves.
