Why do I feel a bit tipsy walking down an out of service escalator?

[ombre3]

@ombre3

Maybe it is more psychological than anything else. We like what we are used to. We tend to get uncomfortable with change.

I, like many others, have noticed this same phenomenom. --------a stopped escalator flat out does not feel “right” walking.

I find it to be very similar to the scenario, when after maybe a week or two on an ocean liner you get off the ship and----------

—Something seriously wrong with the ground. Seems vaguely harder than normal--------and just plain doesn’t act right. Seems like things should be moving around, when they are perfectly and very strangely stationary.

(of course it doesn’t take very long to get over that feeling. And “ground” seems perfectly normal again)

Me wonders if–similar to getting sea legs on an ocean liner after a few days and ground legs back again after maybe a day if---------

-----You walked up and down a stopped escalator maybe 20 or 30 times in a row.

Would not the stopped escalator seem normal? And a moving escalator become abnormal? --------At least to your mind and body?

[MessyPaint]

@ombre3

I find it to be very similar to the scenario, when after maybe a week or two on an ocean liner you get off the ship and----------

—Something seriously wrong with the ground. Seems vaguely harder than normal--------and just plain doesn’t act right. Seems like things should be moving around, when they are perfectly and very strangely stationary.

(of course it doesn’t take very long to get over that feeling. And “ground” seems perfectly normal again)

this reminds me of the feeling you get after jumping on a trampoline for an hour then jumping on the ground,

maybe its what we felt as an infant- and we just dont remember younger memories very well because of our constant training to find a consistency

[picunurse]

@twickster

If it’s about the size of the steps, why does it feel perfectly normal to walk up – or down – a moving escalator?

When moving, the steps are much closer to equal height. Your feet are being raised to that common height with the first couple steps.

You can demonstrate a similar effect with regular stairs, if one or two steps are odd sized.
Try putting a one by six (or wider) on the bottom step of a normal staircase. Then walk up them a few minutes later ( so you lose some awareness and don’t compensate.
Try it on the top step, and a middle one, but be careful, you could trip.
The bigger the difference the harder it is to compensate.

[GorillaMan]

@picunurse

You can demonstrate a similar effect with regular stairs, if one or two steps are odd sized.
Try putting a one by six (or wider) on the bottom step of a normal staircase. Then walk up them a few minutes later ( so you lose some awareness and don’t compensate.
Try it on the top step, and a middle one, but be careful, you could trip.
The bigger the difference the harder it is to compensate.

Do this at home, and it’s not a good test. What you’d be demonstrating is muscle memory, that you’re so familiar with the exact dimensions of the staircase that any slight change causes your habitual actions to be disrupted.

[twickster]

What it might be is that in an unmoving set, the stuff at the top and bottom is all at differing heights to each other, whereas in the middle they’re more normal. You start out all tippy weird, and don’t have time to adjust in the middle before you get to the weird section again. When it’s moving, they’re all at even (fairly normal) heights to each other.

[picunurse]

@GorillaMan

Do this at home, and it’s not a good test. What you’d be demonstrating is muscle memory, that you’re so familiar with the exact dimensions of the staircase that any slight change causes your habitual actions to be disrupted.

It works with any staircase. “Muscle memory” is exactly what I’m talking about, except it has nothing (or little) to do with muscles, it’s specalized memory that effects muscles.
Sorry if that was unclear. It activates with your first step up or down.
It’s why you don’t have to look at the stairs.

[GorillaMan]

@picunurse

It works with any staircase. “Muscle memory” is exactly what I’m talking about, except it has nothing (or little) to do with muscles, it’s specalized memory that effects muscles.
Sorry if that was unclear. It activates with your first step up or down.
It’s why you don’t have to look at the stairs.

But if you’re talking about muscle memory, I don’t understand how this can cause the effect being talked about. Yes, you can make familar stairs feel weird in the way you describe, but it’s not the unevenness itself that is disconcerting (it’s perfectly possible to acquire muscle memory for an uneven staircase, as I’ve done in my house). And you don’t explain how it has anything to do with an escalator, moving or stationary.

What it might be is that in an unmoving set, the stuff at the top and bottom is all at differing heights to each other, whereas in the middle they’re more normal. You start out all tippy weird, and don’t have time to adjust in the middle before you get to the weird section again. When it’s moving, they’re all at even (fairly normal) heights to each other.

That’s already been suggested - and I’ve pointed out that I find the sensation no different in the middle of long escalators.

[twickster]

@GorillaMan

That’s already been suggested - and I’ve pointed out that I find the sensation no different in the middle of long escalators.

:smack:

Sorry – I totally misunderstood picnurse’s first post on this.

And for me I don’t have the sensation as much in the middle.

[picunurse]

@GorillaMan

But if you’re talking about muscle memory, I don’t understand how this can cause the effect being talked about. Yes, you can make familar stairs feel weird in the way you describe, but it’s not the unevenness itself that is disconcerting (it’s perfectly possible to acquire muscle memory for an uneven staircase, as I’ve done in my house). And you don’t explain how it has anything to do with an escalator, moving or stationary.
That’s already been suggested - and I’ve pointed out that I find the sensation no different in the middle of long escalators.

Muscle memory for things like stairs, updates continiously.
It’s not long term memory. It up dates every time you set foot on the stairs. It may feel the same, each time, but it’s because your stairs haven’t changed. Your conscious memory tells you “nope, they’re still the same.” But, the memory set for each trip, isn’t so personal, your brain just tells your body, “Ok, that step is 14” tall, so, leg lift 14" for each step." If one of the steps turns out to be different, you’ll notice, whether on your own familar stairs or ones you’re meeting for the first time.

[GorillaMan]

@picunurse

Muscle memory for things like stairs, updates continiously.
It’s not long term memory. It up dates every time you set foot on the stairs. It may feel the same, each time, but it’s because your stairs haven’t changed. Your conscious memory tells you “nope, they’re still the same.” But, the memory set for each trip, isn’t so personal, your brain just tells your body, “Ok, that step is 14” tall, so, leg lift 14" for each step." If one of the steps turns out to be different, you’ll notice, whether on your own familar stairs or ones you’re meeting for the first time.

Sorry, this still isn’t getting anywhere near the feeling being discussed, which is (1) specific to stationary escalators, and not other steps which might have irregularities, and (2) applies equally to the central portion of an escalator, where there is no irregularity.

[Bippy_the_Beardless]

@GorillaMan

No - and I’ve walked down some bloody long stationary escalators!

The wonders of London Underground ?

[KidCharlemagne]

I had read about this somewhere but couldn’t remember the source. Anyway a search for the source revealed this:

The broken escalator phenomenon. Aftereffect of walking onto a moving platform.
We investigated the physiological basis of the ‘broken escalator phenomenon’, namely the sensation that when walking onto an escalator which is stationary one experiences an odd sensation of imbalance, despite full awareness that the escalator is not going to move. The experimental moving surface was provided by a linear motor-powered sled, moving at 1.2 m/s. Sled velocity, trunk position, trunk angular velocity, EMG of the ankle flexors-extensors and foot-contact signals were recorded in 14 normal subjects. The experiments involved, initially, walking onto the stationary sled (condition Before). Then, subjects walked 20 times onto the moving sled (condition Moving), and it was noted that they increased their walking velocity from a baseline of 0.60 m/s to 0.90 m/s. After the moving trials, subjects were unequivocally warned that the platform would no longer move and asked to walk onto the stationary sled again (condition After). It was found that, despite this warning, subjects walked onto the stationary platform inappropriately fast (0.71 m/s), experienced a large overshoot of the trunk and displayed increased leg electromyographic (EMG) activity. Subjects were surprised by their own behaviour and subjectively reported that the ‘broken escalator phenomenon’, as experienced in urban life, felt similar to the experiment. By the second trial, most movement parameters had returned to baseline values. The findings represent a motor aftereffect of walking onto a moving platform that occurs despite full knowledge of the changing context. As such, it demonstrates dissociation between the declarative and procedural systems in the CNS. Since gait velocity was raised before foot-sled contact, the findings are at least partly explained by open-loop, predictive behaviour. A cautious strategy of limb stiffness was not responsible for the aftereffect, as revealed by no increase in muscle cocontraction. The observed aftereffect is unlike others previously reported in the literature, which occur only after prolonged continuous exposure to a sensory mismatch, large numbers of learning trials or unpredictable catch trials. The relative ease with which the aftereffect was induced suggests that locomotor adaptation may be more impervious to cognitive control than other types of motor learning.

The broken escalator phenomenon. Aftereffect of walking onto a moving platform...