# Why do I hafta kill Amalek? I don't wanna! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481 "2005-03-27T19:41:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/1 "2005-03-27T19:41:35Z")
In samuel15:3, it says: > [@god](#): > > Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. I don’t recall him giving the order to stop killing people. He also said to blot out amalek’s name multiple times. I was reminded of this when I attended a Purim meal for free alcohol and food recently. Sure, so if the rule was really enforced, civilization would be a much different place, not to mention almost all modern religions having such rules \*\*and \*\* the fact that it is impossible to figure out who is descended from King Amalek nowadays, but…I am Jewish by birth, so shouldn’t I start doing some research into my neighbor’s background? P.S. The rabbi already lectured the group on why, if it is a mitzvah to blot out the name of Amalek, why don’t we do it literally instead of simply making alotta noise during the “I can’t believe I ate the whole megillah” thing. reading, but I want to get other’s opinions on this. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/2 "2005-03-27T19:50:13Z")
Just before anyone says anything, I know full well that this isn’t a “Great Debate”, but I didn’t think it went under factual questions either. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/3 "2005-03-27T21:31:11Z")
Apparently, the Mission was Accomplished, which is why you don’t see that many Amalek running around these days. (What - GENOCIDE? you ask? Well, yes, I say. But isn’t that terrible? you continue. Sure, but they deserved it, I reply. Who says? God did. Ah hah! you say, God doesn’t exist! My answer: then neither did the Amalek). ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/4 "2005-03-27T23:55:37Z")
Well, yes, it is truue he doesn’t, and neither did the period of captivty in Egypt. However, does anyone else have any thought, nevertheless? P.S. According to wikipedia, " However, the Arab historian Masudi, citing traditional Arab history relates that the Amalekites did indeed exist at this early period having originated in the region of Mecca before the time of Abraham." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalek) So,that’s one more piece of prof than with the building of the pyramids by jews. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/5 "2005-03-28T00:22:39Z")
Yer damn right ya gotta. Just remember that Saul was washed up as king because he left one of them, Agag, alive and saved the herds and other Amalekite loot. When God, through Samuel, says totally destroy he means totally destry, hear? ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/6 "2005-03-28T00:37:36Z")
The Amalekites, being nomadic bedouin desert raiders, were a serious threat to Israel in the same way as the Huns, Magyars, Turks, Mongols, etc. were to the nations of Europe. The book of Judges records how the Midianites, a similar nation to the Amalekites, appeared every year at harvest time and plundered the land. Think “Huns” but riding camels instead of horses. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/7 "2005-03-28T00:51:43Z")
That sounds like it makes sense, but still, I would like to see an extra-bibilical cite. After all, the torah did call what’s his name, Pharoh and others who were claimed to have opressed the jews, when in fact no such thing took place. Not that they didn’t really suffer, just that the torah is less than truthful in describing what really happend, and which leader it is who caused it. PS. King Ahasuerus is largely viewed to be the same person as Xerxes. Problem is, as far as people can tell, historicaly, he never had his wife’s head chopped off. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/8 "2005-03-28T01:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > So,that’s one more piece of prof than with the building of the pyramids by jews. It isthe height of ignorance to associate captive Jews with the building of pyramids. Whatever may or may not be accurate history recounted in the Torah/Pentateuch, there is no claim that the Jews had anything to do with pyramids. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/9 "2005-03-28T04:32:23Z")
Judaically, it’s widely held that Amalek is unidentifiable nowadays, and therefore the commandment to annihilate the nation doesn’t apply. So while you’re free to have conceptual problems with the commandment, you don’t have any practical ones. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/10 "2005-03-28T12:09:28Z")
Thanks for the responces, especially from Alessan and David Simmons. I really got a chuckle out of yours, which it just what I was hoping to find. I would like to note that I agree with Tomdebb, and Zahava424. But not philosophically. It\*\* is \*\* the height of ignorance to associate captive Jews with the building of pyramids, and I have conceptual problems with the commandment. The fact that pyramid building might be known philosophically and historically to be false, but that doesn’t mean it is any less taught, and any less open to criticism for all that, and also, I do indeed have conceptual problem with a text that makes such commandments. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/11 "2005-03-28T14:49:28Z")
Sott, two answers: First of all, the commandment to exterminate Amalek would only apply when the Israelite nation is in possession of the entire Biblical borders of Israel at peace from all other enemies (bolding mine): > [@Deuteronomy 25:19](#): > > **When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance,** you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget! Second of all, as others have already mentioned, since the conquests of Sennacherib, the non-Jewish nations have been displaced and blended to the point where we cannot distinguish in Jewish law who comes from where (Biblical-ancestrally speaking). So this law wouldn’t even have applied in, say, Hasmonean times. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/12 "2005-03-28T15:02:06Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > First of all, the commandment to exterminate Amalek would only apply when the Israelite nation is in possession of the entire Biblical borders of Israel at peace from all other enemies (bolding mine): Damn, we’re almost there! Well, I’ve better start learning genological research, and figure out how maintain a gun. ☹ (I never mentioned this before, but I am already a good shot, albeit with a handgun I borrowed on an outing to a shooting range) ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/13 "2005-03-28T19:14:33Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > That sounds like it makes sense, but still, I would like to see an extra-bibilical cite. Assyrian artwork shows Amalekites fighting with two archers riding each camel and also on foot shooting arrows from behind kneeling camels. Cite: _Armies of the Ancient Near East 3000-539 BC_ by Stillman & Tallis ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/14 "2005-03-28T19:25:47Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > Damn, we’re almost there! Well, I’ve better start learning genological research, and figure out how maintain a gun. ☹ (I never mentioned this before, but I am already a good shot, albeit with a handgun I borrowed on an outing to a shooting range) Well, as mentioned earlier, there is no way to tell nowadays who is an Amalakite, so the point is academic. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/15 "2005-03-28T20:39:02Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#): > > Assyrian artwork shows Amalekites fighting with two archers riding each camel and also on foot shooting arrows from behind kneeling camels. Cite: _Armies of the Ancient Near East 3000-539 BC_ by Stillman & Tallis but > [@](#): > > you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. so, dang it, now we’ve got to round up all copies of that book and burn 'em. But then again > [@](#): > > Do not forget! and how can I not forget if I’ve blotted out the memory? My brain hurts. Scott, face it, the Biblical God was often portrayed as a bit of a vengeful jealous ass. Israelites were not much different than other desert tribal kingdoms - take what you can and justify it because your God (or gods) says so. Amalekites were the generic “other” against us. Moreover, it is bit unfair to judge Biblical era behaviors by moral standards that have evolved out of Biblical influences on moral standards. I am reminded of this every time discussion comes up re “the binding of Issac” - before that incident sacrifice of a child was the norm for many religions - it was only through that story that our culture was taught that human sacrifice was the norm no more. Abraham wasn’t being tested; he (ie “we”) were being _taught_. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/16 "2005-03-28T21:08:25Z")
DSeid: > [@](#): > > Abraham wasn’t being tested; he (ie “we”) were being taught. The two are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/17 "2005-03-28T21:17:01Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Well, as mentioned earlier, there is no way to tell nowadays who is an Amalakite, so the point is academic. > > Zev Steinhardt That what the geneological research is for, silly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/18 "2005-03-28T22:23:46Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > That what the geneological research is for, silly. 🙂 I know you mean it in jest, but, nonetheless, even geneological research won’t trace your roots back to a specific individual from the end of the First Temple Era with any degree of proof. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/19 "2005-03-28T22:44:29Z")
Well, upon reading the latest comment, I have been sorely tempted to type up some epic combining glurgy, “God ask the impossible of you every day” sermons and the [Homestar Army](http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/army) (of God) skit, but I have spent enough time on this already, so just imagine something, if you are so inclined. Thanks for all the funny responces. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481/20 "2005-03-29T03:01:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > It isthe height of ignorance to associate captive Jews with the building of pyramids. Whatever may or may not be accurate history recounted in the Torah/Pentateuch, there is no claim that the Jews had anything to do with pyramids. Yeah, didn’t the Jews build other monuments? The ones Rameses stuck his name on a century later? (Hence a Ramses in DeMille’s _The Ten Commandments_.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-hafta-kill-amalek-i-dont-wanna/296481.md?page=2)