# Why do I owe Native Americans anything? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2000, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277 "2000-11-29T23:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/101 "2012-03-31T21:24:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I don’t recall being consulted when the White Man came galloping into North America X number of centuries ago. I’m sorry, I don’t understand your point. Why would you have been consulted hundreds of years ago? The point is that you are benefitting now from it, at the expense of the native Americans, and your society and government has agreed via your elected representatives in the form of a mutually agreed upon treaty that X is a fair price for it. In the long run, we’re talking about a democratic decision. So no, you weren’t personally consulted, but that argument applies to every law or treaty passed by your government. It’s not unanimous vote, it’s majority vote (to simplify it to a ridiculous extent). ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/102 "2012-03-31T21:31:15Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The end result and what you do about it is basically the same, isn’t it?. The end result could only be speculated upon, in the theoretical scenario of Germans being taken over by Indians. Perhaps the Germans would have been able to unify, and wipe out their invaders, before any theft of lands, or genocidal activity began. I was just pointing out that -being the invaded, might be different then being the invaders, in terms of cultural and physical loss. Immigrants often chose to come to this land, Native people, by contrast, did not choose to be over run. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/103 "2012-03-31T21:38:51Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t understand your point. Why would you have been consulted hundreds of years ago? > > The point is that you are benefitting now from it, at the expense of the native Americans, and your society and government has agreed via your elected representatives in the form of a mutually agreed upon treaty that X is a fair price for it. > > In the long run, we’re talking about a democratic decision. So no, you weren’t personally consulted, but that argument applies to every law or treaty passed by your government. It’s not unanimous vote, it’s majority vote (to simplify it to a ridiculous extent). My point is that I may be benefiting from things that my ancestors did centuries ago, but I didn’t do anything - I didn’t have any say in what they did, and I don’t feel any guilt for it. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/104 "2012-03-31T21:40:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My point is that I may be benefiting from things that my ancestors did centuries ago, but I didn’t do anything - I didn’t have any say in what they did, and I don’t feel any guilt for it. I agree you shouldn’t feel guilt. Your country should meet its obligation to those people, but there’s no reason for you to feel personally guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/105 "2012-03-31T22:58:39Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > The point is that you are benefitting now from it, at the expense of the native Americans, So tell me, since I’m part native and part euro, which part of me is providing the benefit, and which part is that at the expense of? And exactly how does my left hand pay my right whatever it is that’s owed? You seem to be proposing a totally unworkable cost accounting scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/106 "2012-03-31T23:05:40Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > So tell me, since I’m part native and part euro, which part of me is providing the benefit, and which part is that at the expense of? And exactly how does my left hand pay my right whatever it is that’s owed? You seem to be proposing a totally unworkable cost accounting scheme. I have no idea. I’m not proposing anything at all. I’m describing the situation as it currently is; I wouldn’t be so bold as to propose a change in another country’s treaty agreements. I’m merely describing the logic typically behind treaty obligations and reparations, and I know nothing about you personally and have no idea at all what “part euro” even means - “euro” isn’t a nationality I’ve ever come across, in whole or part. Are you saying you’re not American? That you have citizenship in a European country? In that case, none of this applies to you, surely? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/107 "2012-03-31T23:08:54Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > My point is that I may be benefiting from things that my ancestors did centuries ago, but I didn’t do anything - I didn’t have any say in what they did, and I don’t feel any guilt for it. You shouldn’t feel guilty. However let’s say you live in a rented house, and the lease agreement states that the lease can be taken over by your kids. The house owner dies, his kids take over owning the building. You pass on, and your kids take over the lease. Should they pay rent? That’s what the treaties are, rent for the lands Canada and the US rest upon. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/108 "2012-04-01T03:24:49Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > … have no idea at all what “part euro” even means - “euro” isn’t a nationality I’ve ever come across, in whole or part. Just short for part European ancestry, like the majority of Americans. It seemed rather pointless to list a specific nationality, since there are at least 6 of those. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/109 "2012-04-01T07:34:17Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Just short for part European ancestry, like the majority of Americans. It seemed rather pointless to list a specific nationality, since there are at least 6 of those. You’re mixing up “ancestry” with “nationality”. Or, more importantly, nation states with individuals. Nationality is what’s applicable to this situation. One nation has a treaty with another. You don’t personally have a treaty with anything, the United States of America does. This applies to all treaties into which your nation enters. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/110 "2012-04-01T08:36:37Z")
Because they gave us corn. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/111 "2012-04-01T09:12:14Z")
Which they called “maize”. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/112 "2012-04-01T09:30:53Z")
Paying them assuages the liberal conscious, and is cheaper than the potential consequences of not buying the off for the Conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/113 "2012-04-01T09:44:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which they called “maize”. Which we now call “corn”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/114 "2012-04-02T02:36:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Which they called “maize”. In every native dialect in the Americas? That’s amazing. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/115 "2012-04-02T03:06:57Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > In every native dialect in the Americas? That’s amazing. As long as it’s the Hekawi word he’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/116 "2012-04-02T03:10:32Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > In every native dialect in the Americas? That’s amazing. I’m new to the board so I don’t know if I’m allowed to comment so completely off topic. But here goes… That was funny.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/117 "2012-04-02T03:22:37Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > Which we now call “corn”. > [@BMalion](#): > > As long as it’s the Hekawi word he’s OK. I think you’re the victim of some brutal puns. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/118 "2012-04-02T03:46:41Z")
> [@jeel](#): > > Every time I see money being thrown at the Indian reservations I cringe. And wonder why they deserve special treatment due to their race. How about sovereignty? Although, that may be another debate all in itself. Someone should spare a thought for the [stone age hunters from Europe](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/new-evidence-suggests-stone-age-hunters-from-europe-discovered-america-7447152.html) who apparently arrived first 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/119 "2012-04-02T04:25:29Z")
Just to make sure everyone’s aware, the first 84 posts in this thread are from November and December 2000. If you respond to one of those posts, there’s a good chance the poster is no longer here to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277/120 "2012-04-02T06:54:47Z")
> [@Joe\_Cool](#): > > Since when do you pay rent for conquered land? Like it or not, a war was fought for this land, and sadly, the Indians lost. That’s just the way it is. **No other country** I’ve ever heard of panders to cultures it has conquered… Try New Zealand. Settlement of Maori claims have been underway for 20 years now and involve large areas of land plus cash and business interests. Canada is also going down the same path and Australia is a distant third but it is happening. Looming over all these modern efforts to right historical wrongs, is the creation of the state of Israel which stands head and shoulders as the prime example of reparation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-owe-native-americans-anything/43277.md?page=7)