# Why do I think of the Middle East when I hear surfer music? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 4, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273 "2009-11-04T13:35:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/1 "2009-11-04T13:35:57Z")
Or maybe North Africa? I think “Casbah” or even “snake charmer music” when I hear a lot of surfer music. The best example I can think of is Dick Dale’s _[Miserlou](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8)_, but that’s certainly not the only one. So, why is my brain making this connection? Is there some famous oldie song from a movie that has similar riffs? Is it the rhythm… what? I just can’t quite put my finger on it. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/2 "2009-11-04T13:47:32Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Or maybe North Africa? I think “Casbah” or even “snake charmer music” when I hear a lot of surfer music. The best example I can think of is Dick Dale’s _[Miserlou](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIU0RMV_II8)_, but that’s certainly not the only one. > > So, why is my brain making this connection? Is there some famous oldie song from a movie that has similar riffs? Is it the rhythm… what? I just can’t quite put my finger on it. Don’t know a heck of a lot about surf music, but Dick Dale liked to use the harmonic minor scale, which does have a Middle Eastern quality. The seventh note of the scale is raised, which results in a big jump between the sixth and seventh, giving the scale that alien (to the Western ear) sound. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/3 "2009-11-04T14:05:16Z")
Thanks for dropping by, **Saintly Loser**. It gives me another chance to thank you for turning me on to Johnny Hartman in an [earlier thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=513006). I picked up the Hartman-Coltrane album and a few other things as well. I am at a loss as to why he wasn’t a superstar – I guess there were only so many black singers allowed on the gravy train. I wish I knew enough about music to appreciate your comments about Dick Dale. Any chance you can give me a little more detail so I can try to pick out exactly what you’re referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/4 "2009-11-04T14:13:48Z")
Also, the high, twangy tone of surf guitar is kind of like the high twangy sound of western stereotypes of middle eastern instruments. Combined with some use of minor scales, that could do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/5 "2009-11-04T14:32:30Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Thanks for dropping by, **Saintly Loser**. It gives me another chance to thank you for turning me on to Johnny Hartman in an [earlier thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=513006). I picked up the Hartman-Coltrane album and a few other things as well. I am at a loss as to why he wasn’t a superstar – I guess there were only so many black singers allowed on the gravy train. > > I wish I knew enough about music to appreciate your comments about Dick Dale. Any chance you can give me a little more detail so I can try to pick out exactly what you’re referring to? Johnny Hartman was definitely one of the greats. The scale I think Dale is using in some of his tunes (I don’t really know his music that well – trying to remember the melodies as I write) is the harmonic minor. The minor scale (A minor) goes like this: A B C D E F G A (same notes as the major C scale). The enharmonic minor goes A B C D E F G# A. So you get a big jump between the F and the G#, and a smaller jump between the G# and the A (in the minor scale, it should be a whole tone, but in the enharmonic minor it’s a half-tone). It’s not what we’re used to hearing, and it does sound Middle Eastern to my ear. I’m no expert, but maybe this scale is more common in Middle Eastern music. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a9adbd/32.png) [@Mike\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Fun)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/6 "2009-11-04T15:14:31Z")
Misirlou is Turkish in origin. ---
**Author:** ![Orville\_mogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/aeb1de/32.png) [@Orville\_mogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orville_mogul)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/7 "2009-11-04T15:22:03Z")
> [@Mike\_Fun](#): > > Misirlou is Turkish in origin. And I just [saw](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Dale) that Dick Dale is Lebanese in origin. Seems that the influence isn’t accidental, and in fact he is credited as being one of the first electric guitarists to use non-Western scales. Interesting. Did anyone else think that Matt Bellamy of Muse could do a great cover of Misirlou? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/8 "2009-11-04T15:36:29Z")
Dick Dale was Lebanese. In fact, Miserlou, while greek in origin, was written by a Turk about an egyptian muslim woman. … you can also play it on one string of a guitar, making it the most _concentrated_ awesome in existence. Dick also had a minor hit with Hava Nagila, so the middle-east thing is clearly a flavor to his music. Of course, being king of the Surf Guitar means that everything sounds like him. Try ‘Coasting’ by Gary Hoey, for a modern example. Which is not available on youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/9 "2009-11-04T15:39:27Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Johnny Hartman was definitely one of the greats. > > The scale I think Dale is using in some of his tunes (I don’t really know his music that well – trying to remember the melodies as I write) is the harmonic minor. > > The minor scale (A minor) goes like this: A B C D E F G A (same notes as the major C scale). The enharmonic minor goes A B C D E F G# A. So you get a big jump between the F and the G#, and a smaller jump between the G# and the A (in the minor scale, it should be a whole tone, but in the enharmonic minor it’s a half-tone). > > It’s not what we’re used to hearing, and it does sound Middle Eastern to my ear. I’m no expert, but maybe this scale is more common in Middle Eastern music. I goofed above, I think. I meant the harmonic minor, not the enharmonic minor. Right? This being the Straight Dope, someone will come along who knows everything about music theory, Middle Eastern music, and surf music, and who probably worked on all of Dick Dale’s recordings and was present during the composition of his tunes and probably even suggested using the scale in question. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/10 "2009-11-04T15:40:36Z")
It’s all the sand. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/11 "2009-11-04T15:50:41Z")
_ **Kilgore:** [del]Charlie[/del] Mohammed don’t surf!_ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/12 "2009-11-04T15:58:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > _ **Kilgore:** [del]Charlie[/del] Mohammed don’t surf!_ 😃 Win! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-i-think-of-the-middle-east-when-i-hear-surfer-music/516273/13 "2009-11-04T16:13:57Z")
I must say I’m feeling much better about my subconscious mind. Perhaps I should try to get a contract with Homeland Security – to identify potential terrorists by their affinity for surfer music.