# Why do judicial hangings use long drops for executions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703 "2016-07-23T19:29:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![piko\_poko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@piko\_poko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piko_poko)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/1 "2016-07-23T19:29:16Z")
Hi, I know the common line of reasoning that a long drop will snap a critical vertebra and cause instant death. But it is a misconception that normal suspension hangings cause death by painful choking / strangulation. From a vast number of sources I have read that everyone passes out in 10 seconds. It is called a “carotid choke” and it works on everyone. Basically the amount of force you need to compress your carotid arteries in less than the force you need to compress your trachea. 1. Is not the above true? 2. then why do judicial hangings take the extra pain of doing that work of calculating fall heights, risk decapitation (which is gruesome to viewers)? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/2 "2016-07-23T19:41:25Z")
Don’t know if the 10 seconds figure is true, but how is that an argument for shorter ropes? Not that hanging is all the common in the developed world in the first place. We’re not monsters. If we absolutely must kill somebody, making that death as quick and instant as possible is surely preferable to even 10 seconds of the realization you’re in the process of dying. If the risk of decapitation is potentially tough on viewers, tough titties. Death isn’t supposed to be pleasant, and if it brings home the weight and responsibility of that judgment, all the better. The decision to kill anybody, even a convicted criminal, shouldn’t be taken lightly at all. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/3 "2016-07-23T20:03:39Z")
Not going to link them but there are plenty of videos of Iranian executions on the internet where they either lift them up with a crane or just kick a chair out with no drop. They kick for a long time, several minutes in some cases. Whether the rope completely cuts off the carotid is a matter of chance. Since most developed countries have bans on “cruel and unusual punishment” or torture, short drop or crane lifted hangings are not used. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/4 "2016-07-23T20:16:58Z")
This’ll do better in General Questions. I’ll send it over there. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/5 "2016-07-23T21:05:32Z")
During English hangings of a couple centuries ago, if you had money you’d pay a kid to grab your legs after the drop so you’d have a quicker death. This annoyed the crowd who enjoyed the show of the criminal jerking in agony. ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/6 "2016-07-23T21:07:24Z")
While a broken neck will cause paralysis of the body (hence, no kicking!); will it really kill instantly? Death would in any case result from lack of oxygen in the brain, right? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/7 "2016-07-23T21:14:17Z")
> [@piko\_poko](#): > > 1. then why do judicial hangings take the extra pain of doing that work of calculating fall heights, risk decapitation (which is gruesome to viewers)? If the calculations are properly done the risk of decapitation are about the same as strangulation death, that is, quite low for either case. Even if “everyone” passes out within 10 seconds that’s still 10 seconds of choking to death (and there is ample evidence that a lot of people take a lot longer than 10 seconds). The purpose of execution in the modern western world, where it exists at all, is to cause death with a minimum of distress to _everyone_ involved, both spectators and the person being killed. Therefore, minimal thrashing and twitching on the part of the victim and avoid decapitations because they bother the audience, even if the audience is minimal. Not to mention messier clean up. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/8 "2016-07-23T21:51:22Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > While a broken neck will cause paralysis of the body (hence, no kicking!); will it really kill instantly? Death would in any case result from lack of oxygen in the brain, right? It wouldn’t cause death instantly but it would likely cause unconsciousness instantly, followed by death from lack of oxygen to the brain shortly thereafter. In a judicial hanging, this is practically the same as instant death. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/9 "2016-07-23T21:53:26Z")
> **[Assessing Cervical Dislocation as a Humane Euthanasia Method in Mice](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3358985/)** > > Research investigators often choose to euthanize mice by cervical dislocation (CD) when other methods would interfere with the aims of a research project. Others choose CD to assure death in mice treated with injected or inhaled euthanasia agents. CD... if you snap the neck at the right place it causes respiratory arrest and paralysis, and thus the victim suffocates to death, exactly the same as if strangled except without all that distressing kicking and thrashing about. It is unknown how long the brain remains conscious while this is happening. Just because a body is moving/not moving doesn’t mean the brain is conscious. Headless chickens can run. Decapitated rat heads show EEG activity for up to 30 seconds, but it’s unclear if they are conscious. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/10 "2016-07-23T22:14:02Z")
There were various attempts to devise a table of 'drops: > [@](#): > > In 1886, Lord Aberdare was commissioned to report into hanging in Britain after various unfortunate incidents. Part of his remit was to devise a standard table of drops. The Committee’s provisional table provided a length of drop to produce a final “striking” force of approximately 1,260 foot pounds of force (see below) which combined with the positioning of the noose caused fracture and dislocation of the neck, usually at the 2nd and 3rd or 4th and 5th cervical vertebrae. This is the classic “hangman’s fracture”. The length of the drop was worked out by the formula 1,260 ft/lbs divided by the body weight of the prisoner in pounds = drop in feet. For prisoners under 8 stone (112lbs) in weight a reduction in striking force to 1120 foot pounds was recommended. This was revised because there were too many decapitations and a new tables were issued in 1892 and again in 1813. > [@](#): > > The Home Office issued the following instructions to executioners for the correct setting up of the drop. (There were minor revisions to these instructions over the year, the last in the late 1950’s) > “Obtain a rope from Execution Box B making sure that the Gutta Percha covering the splice at each end is un-cracked by previous use. > Find the required drop from the Official Table of Drops making allowance for age and physique. > At the noose end of the rope measure thirteen inches (allowance for the neck) from the centre of the brass eye, mark this by tying round the rope a piece of pack-thread from Execution Box B. > From this mark measure along the rope the exact drop required (this must be to the nearest quarter inch), mark again by a piece of pack-thread tied to the rope. > Fasten the rope by pin and tackle to the chain suspended from the beams above, and, using the adjusting bracket above so adjust the rope that the mark showing the drop is exactly in accordance with the height of the condemned man. > Take a piece of copper wire from Execution Box B, secure one end over the shackle on the end of the chain, and bend up the other end to coincide with the mark showing the drop. > Put on the trap the sandbag, making sure it is filled with sand of an equivalent weight to the condemned man. > Put the noose around the neck of the sandbag and drop the bag in the presence of the governor. > The bag is left hanging until two hours before the time of execution the next morning. At this time examine the mark on the rope and copper wire to see how much the rope has stretched. Any stretch must be made good by adjusting the drop. > Lift the sandbag, pull up the trapdoor by means of chains and pulley blocks, set the operating lever and put in the three-quarter safety pin which goes through the lever brackets to prevent the lever being accidentally moved. > Coil the rope ready and tie the coil with pack-thread leaving the noose suspended at the height of the condemned man’s chest. All is now ready.” [http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging1.html#table](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging1.html#table) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/11 "2016-07-23T22:28:00Z")
In the second book of Neal Stephenson’s _Baroque Cycle_, _The King Of The Vagabonds_, the executioner extorts money from condemned men: the rich ones who can pay him off get a long drop and die quickly, the poor ones get a short drop. The young vagabond Jack Shaftoe and his crew start up a lucrative business among the poorer condemned men: for less money than the executioner demands, they will hang off the man’s legs at execution after the short drop, adding their weight so that he dies faster. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/12 "2016-07-24T00:00:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The purpose of execution in the modern western world, where it exists at all, is to cause death with a minimum of distress to _everyone_ involved, both spectators and the person being killed. … “modern western world” here meaning the United States and Japan, the only major “western” countries which regularly use the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![piko\_poko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@piko\_poko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piko_poko)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/13 "2016-07-24T10:31:21Z")
hmm I wish there was some solid evidence here. I have evidence to show (from books, online resources) that the amount of pressure needed to compress the carotids is way lesser than that needed to compress the trachea. I do understand that long hanging is better. But every time I see a video or article of Iranian hangings I see everyone commenting that it is extremely brutal. Even the video itself doesn’t have the guy vigorously moving or anything. can I link to website without anything gory? just science and statistics. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/14 "2016-07-24T11:01:46Z")
> [@piko\_poko](#): > > hmm I wish there was some solid evidence here. > > I have evidence to show (from books, online resources) that the amount of pressure needed to compress the carotids is way lesser than that needed to compress the trachea. > > I do understand that long hanging is better. But every time I see a video or article of Iranian hangings I see everyone commenting that it is extremely brutal. Even the video itself doesn’t have the guy vigorously moving or anything. > > can I link to website without anything gory? just science and statistics. Try the link from my post: [History of British judicial hanging](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging1.html#table) ---
**Author:** ![piko\_poko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/85e7bf/32.png) [@piko\_poko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piko_poko)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/15 "2016-07-24T11:21:17Z")
[http://www.empirejustice.org/issue-areas/domestic-violence/case-laws-statues/criminal/strangulation-and-domestic.html](http://www.empirejustice.org/issue-areas/domestic-violence/case-laws-statues/criminal/strangulation-and-domestic.html) > [@](#): > > Notably: > Only eleven pounds or more of pressure applied to both a person’s carotid arteries for merely ten seconds can cause unconsciousness. 11 > To completely close off the trachea, approximately 33 pounds of pressure is required. 12 > If strangulation persists, brain death will occur in 4-5 minutes. 13 also this has a lot of related info: [Suicide - Wikibooks, open books for an open world](https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Suicide/Ligature_strangulation) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/16 "2016-07-25T00:13:48Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > During English hangings of a couple centuries ago, if you had money you’d pay a kid to grab your legs after the drop so you’d have a quicker death. This annoyed the crowd who enjoyed the show of the criminal jerking in agony. Likewise if you were a woman and condemned to be burnt at the stake (say for killing your husband or counterfeiting) you could bribe the executioner to strangle you to death before the fire was lit. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/17 "2016-07-25T18:42:05Z")
> [@piko\_poko](#): > > [http://www.empirejustice.org/issue-areas/domestic-violence/case-laws-statues/criminal/strangulation-and-domestic.html](http://www.empirejustice.org/issue-areas/domestic-violence/case-laws-statues/criminal/strangulation-and-domestic.html) > > also this has a lot of related info: [Suicide - Wikibooks, open books for an open world](https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Suicide/Ligature_strangulation) That may be true, but now you need to analyze the various forces in a rope around your neck to determine if it can apply sufficient pressure in the correct places to produce the effects you desire. In thinking about it, I’d expect the force on the front of their throat to be significantly higher than that on the sides of their neck, where the arteries are. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-judicial-hangings-use-long-drops-for-executions/760703/18 "2016-07-26T04:32:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “modern western world” here meaning the United States and Japan. If you go far enough West, you get to the Far East?