# Why do liberals hate suburbs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965 "2013-07-31T02:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/181 "2013-08-01T20:03:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And as you imply here, anti-urban sentiment has long been a staple of right-wing rhetoric. And anti-suburban sentiment has long been a staple of left-wing rhetoric. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/182 "2013-08-01T20:09:50Z")
Interesting article on why and how cities skew towards the Democratic Party: [http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/02/what-makes-some-cities-vote-democratic/4598/](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2013/02/what-makes-some-cities-vote-democratic/4598/) > [@](#): > > The concentration and clustering of people is a key factor in innovation and economic growth; it also seems to turn metros blue. Shortly after the election, Maryland-based entrepreneur Dave Troy identified the inflection point when counties turn from red to blue as roughly 800 people per square mile. “\*\*elow 800 people per square mile,” he wrote on his website, “there is a 66 percent chance that you voted Republican. Above 800 people per square mile, there is a 66% chance that you voted Democrat. A 66 percent preference is a clear, dominant majority.” > > Education was another big factor in the metro vote. Economists have long noted how the clustering of highly-skilled, highly educated people powers the economic growth of cities. And as with density, the higher the level of education for a metro, the more likely it is to be blue. This becomes clear when we break metros into four groups, or quartiles, by their share of college grads. Obama took the top quartile — those with the largest shares of college grads — by a ten percent margin, 54.2 to 44 percent (the other three quartiles went for Romney). > > The chart below plots the relationship between a metro’s share of college grads and its share of Obama votes. The line slopes steeply upward showing how the share of Obama votes increase alongside metro density. The share of college grads in a metro is positively correlated with the share of Obama votes (.42) and negatively with the share of Romney votes (-.44). ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/183 "2013-08-01T20:12:54Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I find some of the comments a few posts up about suburbs planning around a central shopping or dining hub so that people can have more a city-like experience amusing. So, somehow the burbs are better if we can make it more like the city, just without that pesky inter-city uh, you know, uh, uh, uh _thing_ to it. Why? That’s entirely reasonable. You can have a walkable community without the huge density of a city, and as has been pointed out, not everyone wants to live in a place with that much bustle. Like **miss elizabeth** , I think anything to cut down on car use and encourage walkable communities is a great thing, regardless of if we’re talking about a big city (like where I live, Chicago), a smaller city, a suburb, or a town/village surrounded by farmland. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/184 "2013-08-01T20:17:31Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > Why? That’s entirely reasonable. You can have a walkable community without the huge density of a city, and as has been pointed out, not everyone wants to live in a place with that much bustle. Like **miss elizabeth** , I think anything to cut down on car use and encourage walkable communities is a great thing, regardless of if we’re talking about a big city (like where I live, Chicago), a smaller city, a suburb, or a town/village surrounded by farmland. For that, see [Peter Calthorpe’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Calthorpe) [Pedestrian Pockets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pedestrian_Pocket_Circulation_Diagram.jpg) idea – walkable density in a suburban development. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/185 "2013-08-01T20:19:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > And anti-suburban sentiment has long been a staple of left-wing rhetoric. > > Regards, > Shodan Not the same; that only goes back to the 1950s – conservative anti-urbanism goes back to the 19th Century at least. In fact, it goes back to 18th-Century Britain at the very least and one can find antecedents in ancient Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/186 "2013-08-01T20:20:56Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I hate, in my current 'burb, that every single activity/errand starts with getting in the car. I’ve already decided where I’m buying a condo, and within a 4 block walk are 2 grocery stores, 3 drugstores, at least 20 restaurants, a downtown green-space where they hold free concerts and events, and a subway stop less than a block away. I can honestly see my car not moving for a week at a time. I like this lifestyle. I live in a neighborhood built in the late 50s in what was then the western part of Little Rock, Arkansas. While I’m technically not in a suburb I do get many of the inconveniences of living in one. There are no sidewalks, the nearest real grocery store in 1.1 miles away and if I want to walk north on the main road I’m afraid of getting hit by a car while walking through the underpass to get north of highway 630. But if you want to buy a three bedroom one/two bath house you’re looking at anywhere between $80-$110,000 dollars depending on the condition. I looked at condos in the River Market area of downtown Little Rock today and was a bit shocked. I can get a 959 square foot 1 bedroom 1 bathroom condo for $189,000 dollars. It’s near the main library, five museums including the Clinton Presidential Library, a few bars and restaurants and one trendy little restaurant/grocer called the Copper Grill & Grocery which I could not afford to buy from very often. Since I don’t go to bars for entertainment any more, there’s no place close to me for groceries, and, quite frankly, I’ve been to those museums in the area many times so the only real advantage to living in that area would be that I could walk to work. Which, I’ll grant you, is a pretty neat advantage. But I can get more house for less money 20 minutes to the west of the River Market. Hell, even factoring in the cost of maintaining a vehicle it’s more expensive for me to live in the urban center of Little Rock. And while my neighborhood does look like a suburb it is entrenched in the city and has many of the same problems. My first month here my air compressor was stolen, someone smashed my car window and rifled through my stuff and I had to call 911 because there was a brawl on my front lawn involving 15+ young men in their late teens/early 20s. I’ve lived here six years and have had my car broken into four times. Thankfully most of the thieves have been courteous enough not to smash my window. I won’t walk to the grocery store because my neighborhood gets rougher the further south you go and I don’t have any desire to get mugged. > [@](#): > > So, somehow the burbs are better if we can make it more like the city, just without that pesky inter-city uh, you know, uh, uh, uh _thing_ to it. I think people are a little unfair when it comes to crime in the inner city. I’ve been living in Arkansas for about twelve years now and there are some rural areas and small towns that are pretty goddamn scary. And there are areas in New York and Chicago that are perfectly nice and you don’t have a lot of crime. I tend to associate that kind of thing with poverty rather than a city versus suburb thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/187 "2013-08-01T20:27:44Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I think people are a little unfair when it comes to crime in the inner city. I’ve been living in Arkansas for about twelve years now and there are some rural areas and small towns that are pretty goddamn scary. And there are areas in New York and Chicago that are perfectly nice and you don’t have a lot of crime. I tend to associate that kind of thing with poverty rather than a city versus suburb thing. No cite, but I did once read that, adjusted per capita, there is actually far **more** violent crime in rural than urban areas (nothing said of the suburbs). ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/188 "2013-08-01T20:36:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t think it’s a completely unreasonable question. But it’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Do liberals tend to gravitate towards urban areas or do urban areas tend to liberalize people? I tend to think the latter. Over my lifetime the population of L.A. (city) has nearly doubled and the county population has gone up by about half; I find it hard to believe it isn’t more as I look around me. Up until about 1980 or so there wasn’t much difference politically between L.A. and Orange County. After that, as the population increased the pendulum started swinging the other way, to the point where L.A. votes reliably Democrat in national and state elections. Surprisingly, I came across one of the harshest rejections of suburbia I have ever seen in an article about something else entirely. [Why Nerds Are Unpopular](http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html) > [@Paul Graham](#): > > If I could go back and give my thirteen year old self some advice, the main thing I’d tell him would be to stick his head up and look around. I didn’t really grasp it at the time, but the whole world we lived in was as fake as a Twinkie. Not just school, but the entire town. Why do people move to suburbia? To have kids! So no wonder it seemed boring and sterile. The whole place was a giant nursery, an artificial town created explicitly for the purpose of breeding children. And I don’t think that’s overly harsh; it tells it like it is. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/189 "2013-08-01T20:36:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No cite, but I did once read that, adjusted per capita, there is actually far **more** violent crime in rural than urban areas (nothing said of the suburbs). Given that you have to count Detroit as one of your urban areas I have my doubts. You also have to figure out how someone defines urban in terms of crime statistics. Plano, Texas might be a suburb of Dallas but it’s got over 250,000 people living in it. It’s an urban area even if it isn’t the same density as New York or Mega City 1. And, no, a quick Google search seems to indicate that there is more crime in urban rather than rural areas. And the gap for violent crimes is even higher. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/190 "2013-08-01T20:40:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not the same; that only goes back to the 1950s – conservative anti-urbanism goes back to the 19th Century at least. In fact, it goes back to 18th-Century Britain at the very least and one can find antecedents in ancient Rome. _Burn down your cities and leave our farms, and your cities will spring up again as if by magic; but destroy our farms and the grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country._ William Jennings Bryan But Bryan was feared by Conservative big business, who threatened their workers that they’d shut down their factories the day after Election Day if he won, just like we were hearing in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/191 "2013-08-01T20:40:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > And, no, a quick Google search seems to indicate that there is more crime in urban rather than rural areas. And the gap for violent crimes is even higher. Adjusted per capita? Remember, the rural population is much smaller. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/192 "2013-08-01T20:41:54Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > _Burn down your cities and leave our farms, and your cities will spring up again as if by magic; but destroy our farms and the grass will grow in the streets of every city in the country._ > > William Jennings Bryan > > But Bryan was feared by Conservative big business, who threatened their workers that they’d shut down their factories the day after Election Day if he won, just like we were hearing in 2012. Well, Bryan was a **social** conservative and an economic populist; nearest modern equivalent would be Pat Buchanan. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/193 "2013-08-01T20:54:06Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Given that you have to count Detroit as one of your urban areas I have my doubts. You also have to figure out how someone defines urban in terms of crime statistics. Plano, Texas might be a suburb of Dallas but it’s got over 250,000 people living in it. It’s an urban area even if it isn’t the same density as New York or Mega City 1. > > And, no, a quick Google search seems to indicate that there is more crime in urban rather than rural areas. And the gap for violent crimes is even higher. Not exactly supporting his claim, but I did find this: > [@](#): > > But even with crime down, surely it’s still safer to live in the quiet countryside than it is in the city? It turns out that’s not true. According to a new study (PDF) published today in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, large cities in the U.S. are significantly safer than rural areas. The risk of injury death — which counts both violent crime and accidents — is more than 20% higher in the countryside than it is in large urban areas. “Perceptions have long existed that cities were innately more dangerous than areas outside of cities, but our study shows this is not the case,” said the lead author, Dr. Sage R. Myers of the University of Pennsylvania and the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia in a statement. Far from being violent death traps, a large city might just about be the safest place to live in the U.S. > > Read more: [Study Shows That Cities Are Safer Than Rural Areas, Despite Crime | TIME.com](http://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/#ixzz2akkSVIRJ) > **[In Town vs. Country, It Turns Out That Cities Are the Safest Places to Live |...](https://science.time.com/2013/07/23/in-town-versus-country-it-turns-out-that-cities-are-the-safest-places-to-live/)** > > A generation of movies have made us think that the American city is an inherently dangerous place. But a new study shows that you're more likely to die violently in the quiet countryside ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/194 "2013-08-01T21:47:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Why? > > If you need to run out and buy a light bulb every time one burns out you are doing it wrong, IMHO. When I need one I just go into the huge box of them that I bought at BJs. Yes, I got there with my dreaded SUV. > > Lugging milk and light bulbs around on foot every time I run out? Why on earth would I do that? I’d rather stock up at the warehouse club every six months and then spend my afternoon going on a hike. That’s nice that you have an SUV. Congrats. Have you considered the enormous number of people on the planet who are not you? The elderly, kids, disabled people, broke people, DUI people, fitness folks, eco freaks, evening strollers, etc. who may prefer to or have to walk places? It is fully possible to build walkable suburbs. It’s not that hard or much more expensive. I know we are just realizing now that it’s important and things are improving, but I do mourn for all of the roads we’ve already laid in poorly planned communities. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/195 "2013-08-01T21:49:03Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Not exactly supporting his claim, but I did find this: That’s not too surprising. If I got into a serious accident while living in rural Arkansas it might have taken me up to an hour to get to the nearest hospital. That’s assuming the ambulance got to me within 20 minutes. > [@brainglutton](#): > > Adjusted per capita? Remember, the rural population is much smaller. > [@National Institute of Health in a study spanning 11 years from 1989-1999](#): > > The most urban counties had 1.03 (95% confidence interval [CI]=0.87, 1.20) times the adjusted firearm death rate of the most rural counties. The most rural counties experienced 1.54 (95% CI=1.29, 1.83) times the adjusted firearm suicide rate of the most urban. The most urban counties experienced 1.90 (95% CI=1.50, 2.40) times the adjusted firearm homicide rate of the most rural. Similar opposing trends were not found for nonfirearm suicide or homicide. So if you’re living in a rural area you’re more likely to commit suicide by firearm and if you’re in an urban area you’re more likely to die by firearm homicide. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/196 "2013-08-01T22:36:49Z")
Either way, you’re not getting your cleaning deposit back. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/197 "2013-08-01T23:02:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That’s nice when you’re 23. It’s annoying when you’re 43. I’ll be 36 next month, I could see it going either way. > [@Debaser](#): > > Out of curiosity, which city do you live that is new and shiny? I’ve never seen a city that isn’t dirty and grimy. Charlotte, we have both (new and shiny and dirty and grimy). ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/198 "2013-08-01T23:16:26Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I agree, especially when you are young being able to drink and walk home is nice. When I was in my twenties I lived in a loft style condo in the heart of a city downtown. I could open my floor to ceiling windows and hear the live music from the bar at the corner. > > That’s nice when you’re 23. It’s annoying when you’re 43. > > The young/old divide I’m sure is another factor in suburbs = conservative and city = liberal. Young people prefer cities and as you get older suburbs make sense, especially for raising children. Except as you get even older, suburbs again make no sense. It’s probably great for a 5 year old to live in the suburbs, but that doesn’t mean the 12 year old who needs a ride to her friend’s house thinks it’s so great. I know my niece and nephew were jealous of their city cousins those years. Every one of my relatives who lived in the city was able to age in place past the point where suburban relatives had to move to retirement communities or to live with their children.Living in the city won’t keep you from becoming so sick or disabled that you need actual nursing home care , but basically healthy people who live in cities and towns can function by using public transportation and/or cabs even after they can no longer drive. ``` And about walkable suburbs- I think that non-walkability is one of the defining characteristics of a suburb, whether that non-walkability is because of distance or the layout of the roads or because getting anywhere requires walking along or crossing a four to six lane road with highway speed traffic. If *most *kids can walk to school, to the playgrounds, to the store, etc it might be a small village ,town or city but it's not really a suburb. It's not like the only possibilities are big cities, suburbs or rural areas and anything that's neither big city nor country must automatically be a suburb. ``` ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/199 "2013-08-01T23:23:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > more importantly, neither can we deny that wherever Bill Clinton falls on the spectrum, there also, more or less, falls Obama. I will vehemently deny that all day long. > [@astorian](#): > > Liberal intellectuals loathed the suburbs back when gasoline was cheap and abundant, so I won’t stand for anyone telling me the hostility has anything to do with “sustainability” or the environment. Wait, what? You can look at my posts upthread and see that I am not one who is just reflexively dismissing everything conservatives say about liberals and their attitude towards suburbs. But this one is just bizarre. Your premise is that when gas is cheap and abundant and people drive large vehicles solo on long trips to work or shopping centres, that is a scenario that environmentalists should have no problem with? Really? I almost don’t know what to say to that. Almost. I will just point out that in the late '90s, when gas was extremely cheap and big vehicles were all the rage, every environmentalist I knew was agitating for a big increase in gas taxes to discourage people from using so much. Burning gasoline hurts the environment. Sprawl and the decimation of habitat hurts the environment. No environmentalist worth his or her salt likes “cheap, abundant” gasoline, I assure you. Just…wow. I see **Marley23** downthread is noting much the same thing. I wonder if there are many people on the right who have this basic and monumental a misunderstanding of what the environmentalist agenda is about? It’s fascinating to ponder that and what it might mean for policy discourse. > [@madmonk28](#): > > what exactly is an “ethnic mural” and who looks longingly at photos of kids playing in a fire hydrant? Okay, now I have to come back to the reality check side. Are you being disingenuous or are these your actual questions? There are [tons of high-quality photos](https://www.google.com/search?q=kids+playing+in+a+fire+hydrant&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i%7C8%3Bd%7Cqfk4PBPWydlKyM%3A) of kids playing in fire hydrants, and it is just the sort of iconic thing that lots of people love (myself included). I suspect the people who like them are more likely than not to be liberal, because the typical conservative will see that as a breach of order and just kind of a distasteful urban ethnic way of living. “Ethnic mural” may be a maladroit way of describing it, but I think we all know what is meant by that, and it is something else that does warm the cockles of many a liberal’s heart, again including mine: [Philadelphia mural programme](http://www.servicenation.org/blog/entry/philadelphias-mural-arts-program-giving-communities-a-voice/) [A series commissioned by the city of Baltimore](http://welcometobaltimorehon.com/mural) IMO those are a lot cooler looking than the dorky shit that many conservatives like to look at. > [@Debaser](#): > > I’ve had many jobs and I don’t think I’ve ever had a commute as short as 25 miles. If you commute less than that you are very lucky. That is seriously fucked up and so pointless. Even if it is not the fault in some cases of the people making these commutes, we should be trying much harder as a society to put housing and work near each other. My wife’s commute is 1.8 miles, and we have seriously contemplated moving to within a half-mile to make it easier. > [@huck](#): > > My kids went to school with kids who considered a train ride into “the city” as equivalent to a trip across the country (sometimes viewed as more like a third-world country) and had only done it a handful of times in their lives by the time they began high school–because their parents never did it. Very true. I always hung out with urbanite liberal types in college, but I often would visit their suburban homes with them and their parents clearly disapproved of going into the city, and it was also clear that they never did so themselves unless they had to, or perhaps occasionally for a baseball game. Most of my wife’s family is like this as well. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is also bad for kids to grow up where you can’t go anywhere unless Mom drives you. So much this. > [@Debaser](#): > > I agree, especially when you are young being able to drink and walk home is nice. When I was in my twenties I lived in a loft style condo in the heart of a city downtown. I could open my floor to ceiling windows and hear the live music from the bar at the corner. > > That’s nice when you’re 23. It’s annoying when you’re 43. Speak for yourself–I recently turned 44 and would love that. > [@Debaser](#): > > People get more conservative as they get older. As **madmonk** noted, this [appears to be a myth.](http://www.livescience.com/2360-busting-myth-people-turn-liberal-age.html) Which is of course very bad news for conservatives who are hoping for Millennials to come over to their side in their later years. > [@Debaser](#): > > If we stopped letting everyone under 30 vote, who would that have hurt more: Obama or Romney? The answer is obvious. But that just means the generation that was born in the '80s is more liberal than other generations. It doesn’t mean they will later get conservative. The generation that was born in the '60s was conservative when young and conservative now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/200 "2013-08-01T23:41:18Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Meh. I’ve basically given up on having a short commute. As soon as you think you have things figured out and you move for a job you’ll probably get laid off the next week or the company will move or something. You do recognize **that** as a problem, don’t you? But that’s another discussion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=11)