# Why do liberals hate suburbs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965 "2013-07-31T02:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/221 "2013-08-02T05:36:18Z")
Yesterday I was walking through my neighborhood when I saw a film crew and a gaggle of models fussing about a sidewalk cafe. I stuck around to see what was going on - I like watching the film-making process - and suddenly one pretty young thing stripped down to her panties and started strutting, in a quite attractive topless fashion, toward a bunch of Steadicams. Made my week. Let’s see you find THAT in the suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/222 "2013-08-02T06:37:30Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > That’s nice that you have an SUV. Congrats. > > Have you considered the enormous number of people on the planet who are not you? The elderly, kids, disabled people, broke people, DUI people, fitness folks, eco freaks, evening strollers, etc. who may prefer to or have to walk places? Hey, you want to live in a city? Fine with me. I’m just defending suburbs, since cities are not for me. > [@](#): > > It is fully possible to build walkable suburbs. It’s not that hard or much more expensive. I know we are just realizing now that it’s important and things are improving, but I do mourn for all of the roads we’ve already laid in poorly planned communities. I’ve pointed out that walkable suburbs are possible and are nice to have. Speaking of roads, I’m always scratching my head when people point to the Federal Highway System as an example of good government that nobody could possibly disagree with. I’m thinking “what if we never built that”? Maybe there would be privately owned light rail over the whole country or something else like everyone working from home as soon as the internet was invented. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/223 "2013-08-02T08:46:34Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Speaking of roads, I’m always scratching my head when people point to the Federal Highway System as an example of good government that nobody could possibly disagree with. I’m thinking “what if we never built that”? Maybe there would be privately owned light rail over the whole country or something else like everyone working from home as soon as the internet was invented. There was widespread privately owned light rail in several states in the early 20th century. It failed way before the federal government was involved in roads. Just the existence of cars was enough to pound the last nails in. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/224 "2013-08-02T11:29:50Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > I don’t see the big deal of a 25 minute commute. The days of spending your entire career with one company are over, so I’m not going to sell my house and move every time I switch jobs. As for as looking for jobs, in case anyone hadn’t noticed jobs are in short supply so I’d probably be unemployed a lot longer if I limited myself to 25 minutes. Which is why I think people are going to stop equating the American Dream with buying a house. Houses are great when you can count on having a job in the same place for decades. But as you say, this simply isn’t the case anymore. It doesn’t make sense for a someone to buy a house when in a year or two, they may be laid off, transferred, or underemployed. Especially now that people are really starting to appreciate the value of leisure time. Every minute on the road is one minute less that you can devote to working out at the gym, playing computer games, or watching “Orange is the New Black”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/225 "2013-08-02T12:05:24Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > And the whole idea of doing your shopping within walking distance is a laugh in many city neighborhoods, where the grocery stores are more like general stores of the Gay 90s, except with the cashier behind bullet-proof glass and where most of the things for sale are booze and smokes. The ideal neighborhood described here is Lincoln Park, not Garfield Park. And who the hell wants to face (on foot) a Chicago winter to shop for groceries for them, their partner, their kid(s), and their cats? And schlepping a (formerly) dry sack of kitty litter for a few block in a driving rainstorm is just fucked. Here’s the grocery store that’s a block from my house (and 4 blocks from the basketball stadium, 8 from the football stadium, and within 5 or 6 blocks at least 6 museums). There’s no bullet proof glass, but the upstairs has a few hundred nice bottles of wine to choose from. [Here](https://maps.google.com/maps?safe=off&ie=UTF-8&q=harris+teeter&fb=1&gl=us&hq=harris+teeter&hnear=0x88541fc4fc381a81:0x884650e6bf43d164,Charlotte,+NC&ei=WJ_7UfmhGITm8gSfqoH4Dw&ved=0CMABELYD&iwloc=cids:17094730332090197374) (click on street view to get a look). Also, we don’t get snow 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/226 "2013-08-02T12:24:31Z")
The next generation of automobiles is going to make a lot of the arguments in this thread superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/227 "2013-08-02T12:47:53Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The next generation of automobiles is going to make a lot of the arguments in this thread superfluous. It will never be efficient to sit a single person in a quarter ton if steel and propel them for forty miles just to get to work. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/228 "2013-08-02T12:49:23Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The next generation of automobiles is going to make a lot of the arguments in this thread superfluous. Well shit, if you have the inside info when the damned flying cars are finally coming out, don’t just tease us with it. Spit it out man!! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/229 "2013-08-02T14:19:25Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The next generation of automobiles is going to make a lot of the arguments in this thread superfluous. It could make things much worse, just like cheap gas did in the 90s. It could easily result in more sprawl, more traffic, more sprawling communities that have high cost to build and maintain and are essentially supported by taxpayers who don’t live in the sprawl. [http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/05/quantifying-cost-sprawl/5664/](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2013/05/quantifying-cost-sprawl/5664/) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/230 "2013-08-02T14:50:56Z")
Maybe it’s just because I live in such a small country, but to me, suburbs seem like a waste of perfectly good nature or farmland. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/231 "2013-08-02T14:58:42Z")
And another thing _puff_ – it’s about the Revolution, man, the **Revolution!** You can’t put up a **barricade** on effin’ Cricket Crap Creek Lane, man! Who’s even gonna notice?! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/232 "2013-08-02T15:00:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe it’s just because I live in such a small country, but to me, suburbs seem like a waste of perfectly good nature or farmland. Here we have no shortage of either. In fact, a lot of land formerly under cultivation, if not developed for 'burbs, has been simply abandoned and allowed to lapse back into forest or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/233 "2013-08-02T15:03:32Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > In addition the lack of Anglo middle-class families in cities deprives them of a leavening influence that can help the poor and/or immigrants assimilate into the mainstream of American life. While there are plenty of young professional types living in cities, many of them are far too bohemian and unsettled yet to provide a model of staid middle class family life . . . Don’t forget, a lot of immigrants need no one to teach them about staid middle-class family life. Depends on their culture of origin. (And sometimes circumstances of departure. I recall reading in Michael Barone’s _The New Americans_ that in 19th Century America, there were a lot of Irish prostitutes and practically no Italian prostitutes. That was not because Italian women are any chaster, it was because the Italians came over in families and the Irish as atomized famine-refugees with no family support networks.) > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > . . . along with attending concerns regarding local schools, parks, and similar civic affairs, which in turn largely leave inner city politics (at least until the fortuitous rise of technocratic types such as Giuliani and Bloomberg) to machine politicians using demagougery to control local government. Aren’t local political machines pretty much a thing of the past in America? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/234 "2013-08-02T15:23:28Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Meh. Concrete and asphalt are readily recycled and streets and roads are often wide enough that you can do something with the land, unlike railroad right-of-ways. Railroad right-of-ways are good for . . . well, railroad right-of-ways. Also for [biking and hiking trails](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rails_to_trails). (Railroad engineers and cyclists have similar ideas about what constitutes a reasonable gradient.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/235 "2013-08-02T15:36:37Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I am quite liberal and I like dull. I am dull. I fit right it. _I’m just an ordinary average guy My friends are all boring, and so am I We’re just ordinary, average guys_ -Joe Walsh ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/236 "2013-08-02T15:39:20Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The next generation of automobiles is going to make a lot of the arguments in this thread superfluous. You have not been paying attention. There are objections to sprawl, environmental objections as well as cultural and political and economic and esthetic and quality-of-life, that applied **before** we knew about limited petroleum supplies or greenhouse-gas emissions, and will still apply if those problems are solved or mitigated. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/237 "2013-08-02T16:56:12Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I know that. Where did you get that idea? Sure, anybody who doesn’t like the same things as me is certifiably insane, but I wouldn’t _tell_ them that. 😉 Plan it out? I have one library 3/4 mile away and another 1-1/2 mile away, both served by the same bus, and I can bike or walk to either on the Prairie Path or along a tree-lined avenue with little traffic. The libraries themselves are proper libraries, too, not the tiny storefronts Chicago uses for many of its neighborhood libraries. > How much extra do delivered groceries cost, or, for that matter the groceries alone? In my experience city groceries are expensive, and ordering food from a checklist eliminates the serendipity that comes from walking through a produce department. And with a kid on the way, can you still afford to eat as many delivered dinners? My grocery bill has dropped significantly since going to delivery. I stick to my list, cut out impulse junk food, and can compare prices and specials instantly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/238 "2013-08-02T16:58:56Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > My grocery bill has dropped significantly since going to delivery. I stick to my list, cut out impulse junk food, and can compare prices and specials instantly. Of course, delivery, like in-person shopping, is more fuel-efficient and otherwise efficient within a compact and mixed-use neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/239 "2013-08-02T17:14:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > My main criticism of suburbs is that it contributes to urban decay by allowing those dwelling there to benefit from the advantages of the city while not paying taxes to sustain the infrastructure present there. This problem of course could be solved if we started directly annexing suburbs to cities or metropolitian regions were created for governing and revenue purposes to supersede more traditional county and municipality lines. > > In addition the lack of Anglo middle-class families in cities deprives them of a leavening influence that can help the poor and/or immigrants assimilate into the mainstream of American life. While there are plenty of young professional types living in cities, many of them are far too bohemian and unsettled yet to provide a model of staid middle class family life along with attending concerns regarding local schools, parks, and similar civic affairs, which in turn largely leave inner city politics (at least until the fortuitous rise of technocratic types such as Giuliani and Bloomberg) to machine politicians using demagougery to control local government. Yo are very correct in your assessment-the cities declined because the people who could have prevented the decay moved out. I lived in a decaying city for years-my local alderman did nothing. I finally voted with my feet. All of the big cities that are in trouble (Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, etc.) have three things in common: -a disinterested, low-information electorate -long-term domination by one party -extremely high taxes ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/240 "2013-08-02T17:19:19Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I live in the burbs, and am hoping to sell to move into the city. I find the idea of being able to walk out to a restaurant, the grocery store, or similar neighborhood location a real advantage. I agree with this sentiment. Having meaningful destinations to walk _to_ encourages one to get out and do it. Sure, you could take the car and get to the grocery store in four minutes (and obviously a car may be essential depending on how much you plan to buy), but if the walk is enjoyable you don’t mind the time it takes. For one thing, I can’t use my earbuds if I’m driving, but when I’m on foot I can. Recently my insurance plan invited me to sign up for their mail order pharmacy service–most scripts filled within 7 days and refills within two. I considered: is the pharmacy still .2 miles away from my house? Yes? Then why bother? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=13)