# Why do liberals hate suburbs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965 "2013-07-31T02:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/501 "2013-08-15T07:41:46Z")
Unless he was also kidding about his childhood as recounted in this thread earlier, I think he’s serious. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/502 "2013-08-15T13:47:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Really? What was awesome about it? Because he hit the nail on the head, and it seems to piss a lot of people off because it’s too close to home. His point was that a lot of the ‘progressive’ types will do the exact same things the suburbanites do - intentionally put their kids in the best schools they can, get money from investments and other capitalist methods and then turn around and do a bunch of hypocritical stuff that decries the very things they just did. It’s like doing your bit for the environment by shopping at Whole Foods in your late model Lexus, and decrying everyone else because we shop at Wal-Mart (because we can’t afford Whole Foods). It’s absurd. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/503 "2013-08-15T13:57:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Because he hit the nail on the head, and it seems to piss a lot of people off because it’s too close to home. > > His point was that a lot of the ‘progressive’ types will do the exact same things the suburbanites do - intentionally put their kids in the best schools they can, get money from investments and other capitalist methods and then turn around and do a bunch of hypocritical stuff that decries the very things they just did. > > It’s like doing your bit for the environment by shopping at Whole Foods in your late model Lexus, and decrying everyone else because we shop at Wal-Mart (because we can’t afford Whole Foods). It’s absurd. Or perhaps it’s because the post was inaccurate. Late-model Lexus? Seriously? Also, there are significant doubts about how progressive Whole Foods really is. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/504 "2013-08-15T15:31:56Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Because he hit the nail on the head, and it seems to piss a lot of people off because it’s too close to home. > > His point was that a lot of the ‘progressive’ types will do the exact same things the suburbanites do - intentionally put their kids in the best schools they can, get money from investments and other capitalist methods and then turn around and do a bunch of hypocritical stuff that decries the very things they just did. > > It’s like doing your bit for the environment by shopping at Whole Foods in your late model Lexus, and decrying everyone else because we shop at Wal-Mart (because we can’t afford Whole Foods). It’s absurd. Okay since you obviously took such tripe seriously: 1. What percentage of progressives do you think own fixed speed bikes? (aka “fixies”) 2. What percentage of progressives do you think cash checks from inheritances, and how is it a pre-requisite of progressivism to intentionally not be thankful for it if you do? **Shagnasty** was describing “Progressivism 101”, so those things must be fundamental to progressivism and quite widespread right? ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/505 "2013-08-15T17:46:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe the situation is completely different in the UK than here. I really do not know. But here in the US, the average public school has a budget per student that is 50% higher than the average private school. And private schools can hire teachers that are not certified and pay them less. The parents and teachers are content with this situation for one main reason that is unspoken: the tuition cost screens out the riff raff. (Which by the way means that proponents of vouchers should be careful what they wish for.) > > Cute, but here is the reality: I hate fixies and really any single speed bike. My bike has gears. It cost $250 new, the most I’ve ever paid for a bike, and it is my main source of transportation since my family has not owned a motorized vehicle for years. And this is even though we have four children ranging from 13 months to 13 years old. Our family income, even with that inherited investment, is well below the national median. (And as I mentioned in another thread, I do not have any health coverage, while my wife had to turn down her doctor’s request for her to get an MRI because our out-of-pocket costs would be unaffordable.) No trust fund hipster poseurs are we, sorry to burst your bubble. > > I just find this “me and mine” attitude abhorrent. It’s all the more unconscionable in fact if the private schools do provide a better education. To me, it strikes me as I would hope it would strike most people if there were different tiers of police or fire protection. Like anyone could call 911 and wait around for the publicly funded ambulance, fire engine, or squad car to arrive; but if you paid extra for “911 plus” coverage, you could call a special number to get deluxe service. Blech. > > I suppose there is already too much of this kind of thing already with private security firms and high-priced lawyers. I would rather see everyone have to use just publicly funded police to protect them, and public defenders if they were the ones to end up in court. You can bet both of those systems would improve greatly in such a case. Seriously? You think it is abhorrent that I sent my kids to the best possible schools I could manage for them? Is it also abhorrent that I provide ample and nourishing meals for them, and make sure that they have clean clothes that fit them and are in good repair? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/506 "2013-08-15T17:53:01Z")
So…wow. You are saying that by sending my kids to public school, I am doing something roughly equivalent to failing to provide them with “ample and nourishing meals” or dressing them in dirty, ill-fitting, threadbare clothing? Do you not realise how that sounds? Jesus fucking Christ. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/507 "2013-08-15T18:47:36Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So…wow. You are saying that by sending my kids to public school, I am doing something roughly equivalent to failing to provide them with “ample and nourishing meals” or dressing them in dirty, ill-fitting, threadbare clothing? Do you not realise how that sounds? Jesus fucking Christ. It seems a lot of people do think that, yes, though I’m not sure about this specific poster. I am trying to stop myself from doing “research” on right-wing sites, where terms like “Godless Marxist Indoctrination Center” are thrown around all the time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/508 "2013-08-15T19:00:33Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > It seems a lot of people do think that, yes, though I’m not sure about this specific poster. I am trying to stop myself from doing “research” on right-wing sites, where terms like “Godless Marxist Indoctrination Center” are thrown around all the time. dammit, they’re on to us . . . ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/509 "2013-08-15T20:15:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So…wow. You are saying that by sending my kids to public school, I am doing something roughly equivalent to failing to provide them with “ample and nourishing meals” or dressing them in dirty, ill-fitting, threadbare clothing? Do you not realise how that sounds? Jesus fucking Christ. Of course that’s not what I said or meant. I meant that parents do the best they can for their kids , including providing the best education possible. So why is it abhorrent to educate your kids as well as you can, but not abhorrent to feed and clothe them as well as you can? ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/510 "2013-08-15T20:17:38Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > It seems a lot of people do think that, yes, though I’m not sure about this specific poster. I am trying to stop myself from doing “research” on right-wing sites, where terms like “Godless Marxist Indoctrination Center” are thrown around all the time. I’m not at all sure what you mean, but if you’re looking for me on a right-wing site you won’t find me. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/511 "2013-08-15T20:18:54Z")
You are either implicitly accusing me of exactly what I said you were, or your analogy is shit. Has to be one or the other, chief. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/512 "2013-08-15T20:24:44Z")
ETA: Or has it dawned on you that the parameters you used were way off, and it is really closer to talk about dressing your kids in $300 jeans instead of Levi’s? In which case, yeah…that’s kind of gross too, especially if in the process your kids are segregated into a social group where no one shops at JC Penney. Still not as fundamental to democracy as equal education though. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/513 "2013-08-15T21:24:49Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is where you are wrong. You can win as long as you understand the rules of the game. Of course you put your kids in the best schools available. Any responsible parent would. The part you missing is that you need to make vague complaints about the lack of ‘diversity’ wherever you can fit them in whether it is your kid’s school, your neighborhood or, even better, someone else’s neighborhood somewhat nearby. You don’t have to change your own behavior in any substantial way of course unless you think it will add some street cred to your claims. Just casually drop concerns about the plight of any minority group of your choice in random conversations and get some equipment like an expensive single speed bike that you take out a few times a year so that people can see that you are truly making a difference. > > That extends to everything. If you get a check from a legitimate investment that a relative made and you inherited, don’t ever ever say you are thankful for it. Cash it and then bitch about the evils of capitalism and lament the fact that there isn’t more you can do to overturn this unfair regime. That is just Progressivism 101 but it is an easy game to play once you know the cheat codes. You forgot to point out that in the suburbs you can’t find good, authentic (_insert currently en vogue ethnic food_) restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/514 "2013-08-15T21:30:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > ETA: Or has it dawned on you that the parameters you used were way off, and it is really closer to talk about dressing your kids in $300 jeans instead of Levi’s? In which case, yeah…that’s kind of gross too, especially if in the process your kids are segregated into a social group where no one shops at JC Penney. Still not as fundamental to democracy as equal education though. You’re being silly. My kids don’t wear $300 jeans and aren’t indulged in material things at all. We think that’s wrong and have chosen to emphasize education, volunteering and charity in brining them up. And while there were kids at both high schools (not the parish elementary school) who were well to do and wore expensive clothes, etc., those were not my kids’ friends. My oldest daughter’s best friend from high school is the daughter of a cab driver and a house cleaner from Nigeria. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/515 "2013-08-15T21:48:38Z")
Then your analogy just falls apart completely. ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/516 "2013-08-15T22:15:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Then your analogy just falls apart completely. I apologize for offending you, it was not my intention to suggest that private school is equivalent to decent food and clothing. Insofar as I think it is perfectly ethical for parents to provide the best education they can for their kids, just as it is ethical to provide abundant food and suitable clothing–even though lots of other kids might not have as much–I’d say the analogy is sound in that sense. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/517 "2013-08-15T22:36:31Z")
You’re doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/518 "2013-08-15T22:37:23Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You’re doing it again. Offending you? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/519 "2013-08-16T00:12:45Z")
> [@huck](#): > > Seriously? You think it is abhorrent that I sent my kids to the best possible schools I could manage for them? Perhaps we can divide people who send their kids to private school for whatever reason into those who support paying for public schools also, so kids whose parents can’t afford private schools will be well educated, and those who do not, because they think public education is fundamentally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/520 "2013-08-16T00:30:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe the situation is completely different in the UK than here. I really do not know. But here in the US, the average public school has a budget per student that is 50% higher than the average private school. And private schools can hire teachers that are not certified and pay them less. The parents and teachers are content with this situation for one main reason that is unspoken: the tuition cost screens out the riff raff. (Which by the way means that proponents of vouchers should be careful what they wish for.) Unless you’re talking about religious private schools where the reason for the segregation is religious indoctrination in some form, this is the first I’ve heard of private schools being worse than public schools. The few people I know who’ve gone to private schools in the US did so specifically for quality of education. Clearly you and I live in very different worlds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=27)