# Why do liberals hate suburbs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965 "2013-07-31T02:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![huck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@huck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/huck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/101 "2013-08-01T00:56:47Z")
This thread is an eye-opener for me; I had no idea liberals were view3ed as hating suburbs. I suppose I count as a liberal and don’t hate suburbs. I slightly despise them for the obvious reasons, most of which have already been mentioned (and I should know because I live in one). In Chicago certain suburban areas have been traditionally and dependably Republican for a long time. However, that is changing rapidly, so that any war on the suburbs by liberals would necessarily result in some difficult tactical decisions–it’s hard to wage war against your own neighborhood… ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/102 "2013-08-01T01:02:00Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It doesn’t hit close to home. I’m a low earning liberal living in a city. I moved here from the suburbs, which were way cheaper, but I like the amenities like public transportation. > > You trade in stereotypes and can’t distinguish reality from fantasy. It would be pretty hard for someone like you to insult me. > > But hey. Cool story. If a liberal is living in a urban community instead of a “way cheaper” suburb, that liberal is exactly who I am talking about. I look askance at an individual who is able to afford more expensive housing than presumably working class folks in the suburbs, yet classifies his or her position as a “low” earner. If you can afford to live in one of these mini liberal oases in a large American city, I’m happy for you. Are you living like the vast majority of your fellow city dwellers? Are you being harassed by police for no reason whatsoever? Are your children attending failing schools? Are you forced to choose between McDonald’s and New York Fried Chicken for dinner? I am doubtful. > [@Marley23](#): > > Doesn’t seem to be the world you and I are living in. It’d help if you’d at least acknowledge that you’re generalizing instead of acting like you’ve stumbled onto some universal sociological findings. You say I am generalizing about universal sociological findings in a post entitled “Why do Liberals Hate Suburbs”. There is nothing more you can do but make generalizations in a post like that. Well off urbanites are usually liberals. Do you dispute that? Their love of cities is blind to the realities of city living conditions? Do you dispute that? They don’t associate with working class and go so far as to congregate in trendy urban communities and send their children to private schools. Do you dispute that? What is it that you are disagreeing with, exactly? The fact that I am lampooning clueless culture vulture liberals instead of greedy libertarians and racist conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/103 "2013-08-01T01:05:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We don’t have much of that in Tampa. **Incompetent** government, sometimes, but rarely corrupt. (The county government is another matter, but it’s gotten better since the 1980s.) The police are hardass but not crooked or brutal that I ever heard of, the schools better than they used to be, and there’s no neighborhood where you can’t get a good meal. I’m happy to hear that. Tampa sounds like a nice place. When did you attend schools in Baltimore, because I am describing it as it is today to a T. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/104 "2013-08-01T01:07:32Z")
I don’t think it’s a completely unreasonable question. But it’s a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Do liberals tend to gravitate towards urban areas or do urban areas tend to liberalize people? People with traditional conservative “corporate job, 2.4 kids, wife and a car” values do tend to gravitate towards the suburbs. Mostly it’s for practical reasons. They prefer to have the space and affordability that suburban living offers. Liberals tend to be more educated and drawn to subjects like the arts and media (Fox news not withstanding). These sort of jobs tend to be in cities like New York and LA. Suburbs, by design, tend to be isolating and less diverse. While not segregated formally by race, they do tend to be fairly homogenous in terms of socioeconomics. And suburbanites tend to be isolated from each other. So typically they tend to develop a “groupthink” among their peers from PTO meetings and children’s soccer practice. Cities, especially places like New York, are extremely diverse. People do tend to cluster amongst their “type”, but at least you are exposed to other races and sexual persuasions. Plus, for certain lifestyles that skew liberal, I think the cities do tend to offer more. One thing I have noticed among my friends is that many of them will appear moderate enough while living in the city. But all of a sudden when they move to someplace like the South or one of the Sunbelt states that skew red where everyone is more or less like them, they tend to become rabidly right-wing. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Liberals are in a bit of a quandary when it comes to their love of cities. They love culture. Which to them is museums and libraries and ethnic murals. But they have a romanticized view of true city life. The draconian policing, the food deserts, the pollution, the terrible public schools, are things I would think liberals would not enjoy. I wouldn’t expect a ton of right wing types waiting in line for a [Big Gay Ice Cream](http://biggayicecream.com/)cone. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > What it boils down to is liberals like certain parts of the city. Often these are upper middle class liberals who have moved into a newly renovated home in a trendy part of the city so that they can walk to happy hour. They live in homes previously inhabited by working class folks who lived in the city because they had few choices, and they imagine they are somehow connected to those individuals. They see a picture of children playing in an open fire hydrant and feign comradery, but they don’t send their children to school with those children. > > They claim that the city is ethnically diverse, but the neighborhoods are just as homogenous as those in the suburbs, if not even more so. They claim the city has more amenities, but healthy food is relegated to the trendy districts I mentioned. They must be talking about libraries and museums again. I drive through the city and see chicken boxes and liquor stores. You keep using that term “liberal”. I do not think it means what you think it means. I think you are begging the question by defining “liberal” as anyone who doesn’t live in a stand alone single family home and earns more than $50k a year. Also, most of the rest of your post is fantasy and wishful thinking. Neighborhoods become gentrified because people who have money move into them to be closer to their high paying urban jobs. They also enjoy other aspects of urban living like being able to walk to decent bars and restaurants. I feel I’m relatively liberal because I’m pro-choice, pretty accepting of other races, creeds and sexual persuasions and believe in smart gun control and some level of social safety nets. But I don’t have any particular interest in “feigning camaraderie” with little minority children or working class folk. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/105 "2013-08-01T01:23:30Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’m happy to hear that. Tampa sounds like a nice place. When did you attend schools in Baltimore, because I am describing it as it is today to a T. The only school I ever attended in Baltimore was the UM Law School. Not really relevant to the discussion, and of the public schools I know nothing. Of the police and government, no complaints. Of the food – I drool with reminiscence! Dessert, not desert! As for living there, I found it a highly unusual city in being an apparently random patchwork of good neighborhoods and bad – like, you cross one street and suddenly you have to avoid stepping on empty liquor bottles (but, never empty crack vials). I became a socialist there, just from seeing how many hopeless defeated-looking poor people were walking the streets, and many of them people with jobs and many of them white. One thing I liked was that it was compact enough to walk most places, and to bike **anywhere** if you had strong nerves and a high tolerance for noise. For two years I commuted on foot from Ridgley’s delight to the law firm on St. Paul where I clerked. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/106 "2013-08-01T01:26:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well off urbanites are usually liberals. **All** urbanites are usually **Democrats.** We’ve already covered this. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/107 "2013-08-01T01:29:13Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > You say I am generalizing about universal sociological findings in a post entitled “Why do Liberals Hate Suburbs”. The OP made some big generalizations and got called on it, so you have to generalize as well? > [@](#): > > Well off urbanites are usually liberals. Do you dispute that? I’ll take that one as a given. > [@](#): > > Their love of cities is blind to the realities of city living conditions? Do you dispute that? Yes. Can you back it up? > [@](#): > > They don’t associate with working class and go so far as to congregate in trendy urban communities and send their children to private schools. Do you dispute that? Yes. Where do you get this stuff? I’m sure this stuff applies to some portion of people, but from where do your get your confidence that this is true of practically all liberals? > [@](#): > > The fact that I am lampooning clueless culture vulture liberals instead of greedy libertarians and racist conservatives? Are you implying that this is supposed to be revenge? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/108 "2013-08-01T01:41:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If it’s not worth a debate it ought to be easier to find a halfway decent cite. 😉 Those are both pollsters Nate Silver viewed as legitimate and used in his computer model. The people who insist Obama is center right are the mirror image of the Tea Partiers who keep eating their own solidly conservative incumbents alive in primary challenges. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is that what the kids are calling it now? What happened to “Marxist”? A Marxist would be much more doctrinaire, rather than taking inspiration from Marx (particularly his critique of capitalism) without being beholden to all of his policy prescriptions. A Marxist also would be much less likely to defend Obama, as I do. > [@msmith537](#): > > One thing I have noticed among my friends is that many of them will appear moderate enough while living in the city. But all of a sudden when they move to someplace like the South or one of the Sunbelt states that skew red where everyone is more or less like them, they tend to become rabidly right-wing. Interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/109 "2013-08-01T01:51:16Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those are both pollsters Nate Silver viewed as legitimate and used in his computer model. I’m not attacking the pollsters, I’m saying the citation doesn’t support the point. ‘ number of people think Obama is more liberal than they are’ doesn’t prove Obama is a liberal because it doesn’t define what liberal means. That being said, this is not worth arguing about further. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/110 "2013-08-01T01:51:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Well, I should **hope** it is! N.B.: “Political” != “partisan.” You’re correct, partisan was the word I wanted. Thank you. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If a liberal is living in a urban community instead of a “way cheaper” suburb, that liberal is exactly who I am talking about. I look askance at an individual who is able to afford more expensive housing than presumably working class folks in the suburbs, yet classifies his or her position as a “low” earner. I’m a her. The “miss” in my name should have been a tip off, but whatever. Also, I don’t particularly care what you look askance at. I am a working class person. I do not earn a large income. I moved out of the suburbs because the city fits my lifestyle better, and I like being a part of this community. It means I have less disposable income, but I also don’t have to use a car. I also think it serves my values better, and I like that my kids are exposed to a more diverse group of people. I think sprawl is bad for the environment and the psyche, and I wanted to practice what I preach. It’s worth the monetary cost, to me, to live like this. > [@](#): > > If you can afford to live in one of these mini liberal oases in a large American city, I’m happy for you. Who said I’m living like this? I sure as hell didn’t. Once again, you cannot distinguish reality (my posts) from fantasy (your nutball stereotypes) > [@](#): > > Are you living like the vast majority of your fellow city dwellers? How can I even answer this? I think I am living in an average community. It’s neither the worst area, nor is it anywhere close to the nicest. The city overall is quite poor though, so it’s slightly slanted in that direction. I’m sure at this point you’ll define “vast majority” in some way that makes me look like an elitist.:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Are you being harassed by police for no reason whatsoever? I’m an attractive 30 year old white woman. I don’t get harassed by the police. I recognize this privilege. I fail to see what this has to do with cities though; the police in my former suburb were FAR more likely to bother non-whites than they are here. > [@](#): > > Are your children attending failing schools? They aren’t failing. They are public and they are about 80% black, neither of which means failing. > [@](#): > > Are you forced to choose between McDonald’s and New York Fried Chicken for dinner? I don’t eat out, I can’t afford it. Last week I made dinner for four people for four nights for less than $25 (total) because that was all the money I had. I’ve been eating lentil soup the last two days because lentils are cheap and I can’t afford meat. Is that enough, or do you want me to take a picture of myself wearing a fucking barrel for pants?:rolleyes: > [@](#): > > I am doubtful. That isn’t the word for what you are. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/111 "2013-08-01T01:52:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The fact that I am lampooning clueless culture vulture liberals . . . You have never met one and you never will. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/112 "2013-08-01T01:52:53Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Suburbs, by design, tend to be isolating and less diverse. While not segregated formally by race, they do tend to be fairly homogenous in terms of socioeconomics. And suburbanites tend to be isolated from each other. So typically they tend to develop a “groupthink” among their peers from PTO meetings and children’s soccer practice. Urbanites are just as susceptible to groupthink as anyone. Have you seen election returns? Nearly every neighborhood that exists is “fairly homogenous in terms of socionomics”. This includes urban ones. Suburbs I am familiar with are just as much or more diverse racially than city neighborhoods. > [@](#): > > Cities, especially places like New York, are extremely diverse. People do tend to cluster amongst their “type”, but at least you are exposed to other races and sexual persuasions. Plus, for certain lifestyles that skew liberal, I think the cities do tend to offer more. I will agree that people are “exposed” to a more diverse crowd than in suburbs. Whether this has anything to do with making people liberal, I doubt it. > [@](#): > > You keep using that term “liberal”. I do not think it means what you think it means. I think you are begging the question by defining “liberal” as anyone who doesn’t live in a stand alone single family home and earns more than $50k a year. Also, most of the rest of your post is fantasy and wishful thinking No I am defining liberal as someone who identifies as liberal. You are broadening liberal to mean any Democratic voter who favors one or two liberal policies. > [@](#): > > Neighborhoods become gentrified because people who have money move into them to be closer to their high paying urban jobs. They also enjoy other aspects of urban living like being able to walk to decent bars and restaurants. I feel I’m relatively liberal because I’m pro-choice, pretty accepting of other races, creeds and sexual persuasions and believe in smart gun control and some level of social safety nets. But I don’t have any particular interest in “feigning camaraderie” with little minority children or working class folk. The gentrified neighborhoods are just as isolated and white as the suburbs. In fact even more so than working class suburbs because being upper class means you are more likely to be white. The urban liberal romanticizes city life because he wants to get drunk and walk home. He advocates public schooling and diversity but doesn’t send his kids to city schools. He doesn’t protest as police wreak havoc in minority neighborhoods only blocks away. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/113 "2013-08-01T01:55:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If you can afford to live in one of these mini liberal oases in a large American city, I’m happy for you. Are you living like the vast majority of your fellow city dwellers? Are you being harassed by police for no reason whatsoever? Are your children attending failing schools? Are you forced to choose between McDonald’s and New York Fried Chicken for dinner? **WillFarnaby** ’s conception of American cities seems to be based on a combination of Dickens novels and Reagan campaign ads. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/114 "2013-08-01T02:00:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those are both pollsters Nate Silver viewed as legitimate and used in his computer model. > > The people who insist Obama is center right are the mirror image of the Tea Partiers who keep eating their own solidly conservative incumbents alive in primary challenges. [RationalWiki is a pretty good source here.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Democratic_party#Internal_factions) > [@](#): > > **Internal factions** > > While the Democrats have a substantial liberal wing among the public at large, the party’s inability to coordinate itself properly results in a political platform that consists of rolling over to Republican schemes and failing to provide effective leadership. The sectarian violence appears below. > > **Progressive Democrats** > European-styled social democrats. In the House they are organized in the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC), the largest in the House of Representatives. Some are descendants of the New Left: > > - Sherrod Brown > - Howard Dean > - Keith Ellison > - Russ Feingold (the only Senator to vote against the original manifestation of \* the PATRIOT Act) > - Barney Frank > - Dennis Kucinich > - Barbara Lee > - Jim McDermott > - Cynthia McKinney > - Bernie Sanders (self-described socialist; not a Democrat, but caucuses with them) > - Pete Stark (the first openly atheist member of Congress[4]) > > **Traditional liberals** > Constitute half of the voter base, and take pain to avoid infighting between the separate Democratic coalitions. Centre-left, and don’t share many differences with the progressives anyway: > > - Joe Biden > - Barbara Boxer > - Kirsten Gillibrand > - The Kennedys > - John Kerry > - Nancy Pelosi > - Jay Rockefeller > - Elizabeth Warren > - Anthony Weiner > > **New Democrats** > The Third Way moderates. They’ve increased their clout since the Dems’ neoliberal exploits since the 90s. Roughly equivalent to the British New Labour. Represented by the New Democrat Coalition (an affiliate of the Democratic Leadership Council): > > - The Clintons > - John Edwards > - Dianne Feinstein > - Al Gore > - Joe Lieberman (independent since 2006) > \*\*\* Some random black guy[5] \*\* > - Harry Reid > - Debbie Wasserman Schultz > > **Blue Dogs** > Here’s where the shit starts to break out. Those in the Blue Dog Coalition are often accused of being DINOs, siding with conservative thought whenever they wish, most commonly on social issues and deficit hawkery. Officially they are a coalition in the House but a few ideologically aligned Senators are listed as well. They’re typically elected in Jesusland, and are considered flaming lefties there: > > - Joe Donnelly > - Mary Landrieu > - Gabrielle Giffords > - Joe Manchin > - Ben Nelson > - Collin Peterson > - Heath Shuler > > **Dixiecrat leftovers and boll weevils** > To the right of the Blue Dogs. Not a significant feature in the party anymore, although occasionally one will turn up here and there as a failed Senate candidate, or a centrist Democrat will go haywire and swing far to the right.[6] > > - Virgil Goode (left the Democrats in 2000, was the Constitution Party presidential nominee in 2012) > - Zell Miller > > **Random populists** > These often vote with the progressive and traditional liberal wings of the party, but have their conservative quirky bits. Not easily categorized elsewhere: > > - Jon Tester > - Jim Webb > > **The libertarians** > Yes, they exist too, probably upset about Dubya’s stance on civil liberties and the Republicans’ constant juggling between pro-business interests and the Religious Right: > > - Mike Gravel > - There is also an erstwhile “Democratic Freedom Caucus” influenced by Georgism whose actual influence in the party is negligible ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/115 "2013-08-01T02:01:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Urbanites are just as susceptible to groupthink as anyone. Have you seen election returns? Nearly every neighborhood that exists is “fairly homogenous in terms of socionomics”. This includes urban ones. Suburbs I am familiar with are just as much or more diverse racially than city neighborhoods. _Which_ suburbs? _Which_ city? None of this is a description of anyplace I know. > [@](#): > > I will agree that people are “exposed” to a more diverse crowd than in suburbs. Whether this has anything to do with making people liberal, I doubt it. You JUST SAID suburbs are more diverse than cities. WTF?! > [@](#): > > No I am defining liberal as someone who identifies as liberal. You are broadening liberal to mean any Democratic voter who favors one or two liberal policies. So, “liberal” you take at face value, but “low-earner” has to be proven in various demeaning ways? Hmmmmm > [@](#): > > The gentrified neighborhoods are just as isolated and white as the suburbs. In fact even more so than working class suburbs because being upper class means you are more likely to be white. The urban liberal romanticizes city life because he wants to get drunk and walk home. He advocates public schooling and diversity but doesn’t send his kids to city schools. He doesn’t protest as police wreak havoc in minority neighborhoods only blocks away. I am absolutely certain there are people like this. But for you to pretend that all, or even most, “liberals” live like this is just asinine. I send my kids to city schools. I volunteer my time for several causes that promote social justice. Hell, the main reason I moved was because I wanted to be closer to my meetings (I hate driving) and I felt like a hypocrite protesting the actions of the city police when I wasn’t actually a resident. You’re just incredibly, _laughably_ wrong! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/116 "2013-08-01T02:03:52Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The urban liberal romanticizes city life because he wants to get drunk and walk home. It’s a lot more than that, but how is even just that such a bad thing? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > He advocates public schooling and diversity but doesn’t send his kids to city schools. This does drive me crazy–it’s one of the few ways that Obama has gotten me really mad. One of my formerly really good friends has become less so, more of a strained relationship, since his oldest hit school age and he sent them to private school (Catholic, despite his and his wife’s atheism!) instead of the perfectly good local public schools. And he and the other professors, lawyers, and doctors who do this are happy to dip their toes into the public school system to send their kids to gifted classes once a week (or to special ed if they are disabled). Urgh, don’t get me started. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/117 "2013-08-01T02:04:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > No I am defining liberal as someone who identifies as liberal. You are broadening liberal to mean any Democratic voter who favors one or two liberal policies. Do you mean what the [Pew Political Typology](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/) calls “Solid Liberals” (14% of population, 16% of registered voters)? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/118 "2013-08-01T02:05:46Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The urban liberal romanticizes city life because he wants to get drunk and walk home. It makes a lot of sense to want that. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/119 "2013-08-01T02:08:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [RationalWiki is a pretty good source here.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Democratic_party#Internal_factions) Ehhh…no. Blatantly biased, with that “rolls over” business. I am proud of my party’s accomplishments in 2009 and 2010. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965/120 "2013-08-01T02:27:15Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > _Which_ suburbs? _Which_ city? None of this is a description of anyplace I know. Well then we have probably lived in different areas. > [@](#): > > You JUST SAID suburbs are more diverse than cities. > WTF?! Neighborhoods are more diverse racially in many suburbs. Cities as a whole seem to have different cultures, but they are highly segregated. as you move out to the suburbs, people of different races seem to behave similarly and they lose their original culture. > [@](#): > > So, “liberal” you take at face value, but “low-earner” has to be proven in various demeaning ways? Hmmmmm You felt the need to prove yourself. I didn’t request that you do so. > [@](#): > > I am absolutely certain there are people like this. But for you to pretend that all, or even most, “liberals” live like this is just asinine. I send my kids to city schools. I volunteer my time for several causes that promote social justice. Hell, the main reason I moved was because I wanted to be closer to my meetings (I hate driving) and I felt like a hypocrite protesting the actions of the city police when I wasn’t actually a resident. > > You’re just incredibly, _laughably_ wrong Because one person doesn’t fit my description exactly I must be laughably wrong. If you are the rare bird who is liberal, and not a raging hypocrite, I am happy for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-liberals-hate-suburbs/664965.md?page=7)