# Why do libertarians always want to abolish the FEDERAL RESERVE **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124 "2018-12-14T16:06:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/81 "2018-12-15T03:26:33Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > Of course not. > > The United States has sanctioned, bombed or invaded every country that has tried, specifically because hard money is a threat to the petrodollar and the US is **very** aggressive about preserving the petrodollar. Almost every country we have taken direct hostile action against has done something immediately proceeding that action that serves as a severe threat to the petrodollar. > > Why do you think we hate Iran, support bombing Yemen, and support the Crown Prince who quite clearly murdered Kashoggi? (If you’re unaware, the Petrodollar system is dependent on the cooperation of Saudi Arabia and it’s sphere of influence). > > Now, I’m not a libertarian so I can’t speak for them, and I’ll admit a lot of idiots conflate nepotism, oligarchy, and various other economic issues with racial issues, but the fed itself is **designed to make poor people poorer**. That 2% mandate means, by definition, means rich people (specifically, those who own stocks in banks) are being made rich by _direct_ transfer of purchasing power from the poor to the stockholders. > > If you’re okay with that, fine, but you don’t have to be conspiracy theorist to say “maybe the rich don’t need free purchasing power at the expense of the poor.” > [@etasyde](#): > > Libya (just google “Gaddafi gold oil” - I’m not playing a game of “do you like this source or that source” when there are literally thousands to choose from). Iraq was also targeted because Sadam was pushing for a Euro/oil exchange. Again, I specifically said “threats to the petrodollar.” > > Also note that a fiat standard is _extremely profitable_. Countries don’t do what’s best for their people, they do what’s best for the people in power. Virtually every oligarch in every country benefits massively from the absence of a gold standard. Why would they want to hamper their own profits? What, so some poor schmuck on the street can afford a cheeseburger? I don’t think so. Just throwing in petrodollars - which aren’t any kind of currency - as something to be talked about in a conversation about a gold standard is enough to make us leery of anything else you have to say. Now, admittedly, a fiat standard is indeed _extremely profitable_ while a gold standard would immediately send the entire world’s economy into a depression. Most of us, however, think profitable is therefore a good thing. But you fascinate me strangely. Please tell me how in this or other any world the Arab countries stopping denominating oil in dollars would help the poor be less poor, since that seems to be the point of your harangue. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/82 "2018-12-15T03:59:29Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > See Larry Niven’s The Roentgen Standard [http://www.larryniven.net/stories/roentgen.shtml](http://www.larryniven.net/stories/roentgen.shtml) On the other hand, John Morressey wound up writing a whole series of novels about a wizard whose origin, in part, was the idea that if the philosopher’s stone was ever created, a real killing would be made in figuring out how to turn all that gold back into lead. The idea pretty much dwindled to a throwaway line in the first novel. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/83 "2018-12-15T04:17:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > But you fascinate me strangely. Please tell me how in this or other any world the Arab countries stopping denominating oil in dollars would help the poor be less poor, since that seems to be the point of your harangue. “Change the color of the price stickers on the shelves =\> massive economic disruption.” Such an odd belief, isn’t it? You’re right that there’s a fascinating aspect to this. What’s happening here is that some unfortunate souls conflate two different functions of money: the yardstick of value vs the token that gets passed around – the unit of account vs the medium of exchange. If countries price their oil in euros instead of dollars, then well golly gee, they bloody well hafta _sell_ their oil for euros and only euros, don’t they? Dollars wouldn’t count anymore. But of course, this is nonsense. They could price their oil in cowrie shells, cacoa beans, cartons of cigarettes, ounces of gold, or whatever else, but when the US swaggers drunkenly up to them with billions of greenbacks in exchange for boatloads of that sweet crude, they will open their wallets wide and happily accept the flood of Franklins. Ain’t gonna make no damn difference the color of the price stickers on the shelf. (Or the denomination of the currency quoted for the oil price.) A lot of people have major troubles grokking that. In their own personal experience, every transaction they ever saw was quoted in dollars, and exchanged in dollars. That’s what the world looks likes to them. It takes a modest feat of abstraction to realize that a price can be quoted in one way, and then transacted in another. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/84 "2018-12-15T04:51:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Base it on lead. It’s so common everyone will be rich! And murder rates will drop because using bullets is throwing away money! I don’t get how people who speak sneeringly of “little pieces of paper with dead people on them” see shiny rocks as an inherently superior alternative, myself. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/85 "2018-12-15T06:06:26Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > … the fed itself is **designed to make poor people poorer**. That 2% mandate means, by definition, means rich people (specifically, those who own stocks in banks) are being made rich by _direct_ transfer of purchasing power from the poor to the stockholders. > > If you’re okay with that, fine, but you don’t have to be conspiracy theorist to say “maybe the rich don’t need free purchasing power at the expense of the poor.” By “the 2% mandate” are you referring to the fact that the FRB tries to keep the inflation rate slightly above zero, rather than zero? How does inflation transfer wealth from the poor (who tend to be debtors) to the rich (creditors)? The guy I mentioned who left $1,000,000 in banknotes under his mattress wasn’t poor. Don’t wave your hands or link to anti-Semitic cartoons; show us with an actual example _how_ the purchasing power is lost. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/86 "2018-12-15T07:44:59Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > BTW, I’m not watching a half hour of animation on YouTube. I’m fully aware that my “cite” was quite superfluous, but if 30 minutes is too much for you than we have nothing more to discuss. > [@Hellestal](#): > > Perhaps it is needless to say, but to state it clearly: Almost every detail of the modern monetary system, as described in that video, is factually incorrect. It gets almost nothing right. Fine. But at least post some facts or cites back this up. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/87 "2018-12-15T08:03:46Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’m fully aware that my “cite” was quite superfluous, but if 30 minutes is too much for you than we have nothing more to discuss. > > . Youtube cites are bad, most importantly as we can’t cut and paste the dreadfully wrong parts. So, **Exapno Mapcase** is right. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/88 "2018-12-15T08:48:17Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’m fully aware that my “cite” was quite superfluous, but if 30 minutes is too much for you than we have nothing more to discuss. Compared to text, video is a grossly inefficient way of conveying information. Why watch for 30 minutes when you can read it in 5? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/89 "2018-12-15T15:38:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > BTW, I’m not watching a half hour of animation on YouTube. If it’s worth saying, say it here. > [@Hellestal](#): > > For those who are unaware, that link goes to a fairly famous Jewish-bank-conspiracy video. > > At the 24 min mark, the video implies that the sinister banking powers behind the Fed, previously described as the “Red Shields” (Rothschilds) and depicted as black spidery creatures (yes, really), murdered JFK because he was trying to re-implement a metallic monetary system in the US. “6 months later, John F Kennedy went to Dallas, and neverrr rrreturrrned.” “No! Way! No way they could do that!” > > Perhaps it is needless to say, but to state it clearly: Almost every detail of the modern monetary system, as described in that video, is factually incorrect. It gets almost nothing right. Indeed, just looking at that conspiracy about Kennedy one can find that it has been debunked many times before: [http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/jfk.htm](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/jfk.htm) That bit about JFK’s speech denouncing “secret societies” was misleading too, the cartoon implies that Kennedy was talking about the secret society behind the Fed, but Kennedy was actually denouncing the Russians and Communism, and warning the press to not fall for disinformation campaigns from the Russians… > **[The President and the Press: Address before the American Newspaper Publishers...](http://web.archive.org/web/20080222135553/http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/003POF03NewspaperPublishers04271961.htm)** > > "The President And The Press": President John F. Kennedy's address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York City on April 27, 1961. Sounds familiar, and it is not the current president the one who is aware of the current dangers, but I digress… Much more about how that cartoon misleads over here: > **[The American Dream (film)](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_American_Dream_(film))** > > The American Dream is a 2011 animated film produced and written by Tad Lumpkin and Harold Uhl. At first glance, the movie seems to explain what concepts such as money and debt mean, while being complete arse at explaining how the Federal Reserve and... ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/90 "2018-12-15T15:52:45Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Fine. But at least post some facts or cites back this up. If the video is talking about the Rothschilds there’s no need to debunk it. It’s self-debunking. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/91 "2018-12-15T16:22:39Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’m fully aware that my “cite” was quite superfluous, but if 30 minutes is too much for you than we have nothing more to discuss. > > Fine. But at least post some facts or cites back this up. “Everything I learned about economics, I learned from YouTube.” ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/92 "2018-12-15T16:31:25Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Fine. But at least post some facts or cites back this up. In fact, I’ve _already_ cited a falsehood in the video. I just did it in an earlier post, my first post in this thread. In [Post 14 of this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21377961#post21377961), I pointed out the common misconception about the Fed being a “private” bank. I linked the Fed’s own website to make the point that the Fed is, in fact, a government agency. The link goes to [federalreserve.gov](https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12799.htm). (They have a dot-gov address because they are gubmint.) > [@Federal Reserve Website](#): > > The Federal Reserve, like many other central banks, is an independent government agency but also one that is ultimately accountable to the public and the Congress. In Post 14, I also mentioned briefly the history of the Fed which makes their government status confusing to people who don’t know the weird structure of the organization. I can go into more detail about that history and structure if it still seems confusing after you check that post. (It’s legitimately confusing.) All of this is to say that I cited a factual rebuttal to one of the falsehoods in that video _before_ you posted the video. I’m ahead of the game here. I’m not interested in going through each error in that video point-by-point. There are way, way too many. But I guess I can do one more right now. The video states that tax revenues from the IRS are used to finance the Fed’s “debts”. This is not just wrong, but the exact opposite of reality. The Fed is self-financing. Tax revenues do not flow to the Fed from Treasury. Revenues flow from the Fed to Treasury. [Cite.](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/september/fed-payments-treasury-rising-interest-rates) > [@St Louis Fed](#): > > The yearly remittances to the Treasury are essentially the leftover Fed revenue after operating expenses. By law, this additional revenue must be turned over to the Treasury. > > The revenue sent to the Treasury peaked at $97.7 billion in 2015 and has been steadily falling since. In January, the Fed sent $80.2 billion to the Treasury. The Fed does not receive IRS revenues to finance its operations. The Fed is self-financing, from its monopoly on base money creation. Any “profits” made by the Fed, after operating expenses, must by law be remitted back to the US Treasury. Now, these “operating expenses” include dividend payments to the private bank participants in the System. The regional Fed banks pay dividends to private banks. However, those dividends are not determined by the private banks, or the regional Fed banks. The dividends are determined by act of Congress. And in fact, Congress specifically _decreased_ the dividend to certain large banks fairly recently. They did this for the specific purpose of increasing the flow of revenue payments to Treasury from the Fed. If you have any **specific questions** about monetary claims in that video, I can try to address them. But you’re better off ejecting out of your brain any claim in that video. Off the top of my head, there are only two monetary claims I remember that were actually true, and even those two facts would be better learned in a different context, without the Jewish banker conspiracy theory nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/93 "2018-12-15T17:09:45Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Much more about how that cartoon misleads over here: > > [The American Dream (film) - RationalWiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_American_Dream_(film)) Hah. I was able to read that in five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/94 "2018-12-15T17:19:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Hah. I was able to read that in five minutes. It’s an odd fact that libertarians have Alexander Hamilton (who worked his way up from modest and troubled beginnings) as a villain, while Jefferson (who was born into his position) is a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/95 "2018-12-15T18:06:26Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > It’s an odd fact that libertarians have Alexander Hamilton (who worked his way up from modest and troubled beginnings) as a villain, while Jefferson (who was born into his position) is a hero. Well, he \*was \*an immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/96 "2018-12-15T18:10:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > How does inflation transfer wealth from the poor (who tend to be debtors) to the rich (creditors)? > **[Cantillon Effects and Money Neutrality](https://www.aier.org/article/cantillon-effects-and-money-neutrality/)** > > Money neutrality is a key principle in monetary economics. As might seem obvious, the amount of goods that can be produced depends on the availability of factors of production (such as capital and labor) and on technological knowledge. Also, the rich are bigger debtors than the poor. I suggest you read up on how US dollars (and virtually every other major fiat currency in circulation today) comes into existence. _Every dollar_ is a debt instrument issued initially to a bank. Now, Economics 101: the value of something is strongly correlated to its scarcity. This includes currency. This is why Weimar Germany and every other government that tried to print a lot of money went through a hyper inflation. Unfortunately, the effects of inflation **are not** instantaneous. It takes time for money to proliferate - just because a huge sum of money appears in a buyers hand does not mean that the sellers are aware of it or able to react. They react when said buyer begins to buy up all of the available merchandise, and raise their prices. Because banks, and therefore the shareholders of the banks, are always the first recipients of the dollars that are created, they enjoy the benefit of spending those dollars _before_ inflation hits. It is slow to move from the top hands down the through the economy, because banks don’t generally buy shoes or milk, they buy stocks, derivatives, corporate bonds, and other large investments. The non-smaller-bank beneficiaries of these investments then go on to buy more stocks (usually their own) or capital expenditures (which are now at about parity). Capex goes to smaller corporations, manufacturers, etc, and that finally makes its way to the workers. By that time, the value of the dollar has diminished. In short: the banks get to spend **before** inflation, and you get to spend **after** inflation. _That_ is wealth transfer. You are made poorer because the unit of measure is shifted against your favor. _Especially_ where houses are concerned. Wages don’t even come close to matching inflation, either, so you get a lovely double whammy. In the housing market, it is even clearly zero sum: they get to buy the house at a cheaper price, before that money even has a possible means by which to arrive in your hands, and then sell it to you at a marked up price. > [@](#): > > The guy I mentioned who left $1,000,000 in banknotes under his mattress wasn’t poor. Don’t wave your hands or link to anti-Semitic cartoons; show us with an actual example _how_ the purchasing power is lost. Yeah, I haven’t mentioned any cartoons and don’t appreciate the slur. If you can’t manage a single reply without insinuating I’m an anti-semite or a racist, you’re really not worth discussing with. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/97 "2018-12-15T20:38:23Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > … Because banks, and therefore the shareholders of the banks, are always the first recipients of the dollars that are created, they enjoy the benefit of spending those dollars _before_ inflation hits. It is slow to move from the top hands down the through the economy, because banks don’t generally buy shoes or milk, they buy stocks, derivatives, corporate bonds, and other large investments. The non-smaller-bank beneficiaries of these investments then go on to buy more stocks (usually their own) or capital expenditures (which are now at about parity). Capex goes to smaller corporations, manufacturers, etc, and that finally makes its way to the workers. By that time, the value of the dollar has diminished. In short: the banks get to spend **before** inflation, and you get to spend **after** inflation. The complaint was addressed against 2% annual inflation. This corresponds with 0.005% daily inflation. $100 on Monday will be worth only $99.995 on Tuesday, only $99.989 on Wednesday, and only $99.984 on Thursday. If there were a 3-day delay of the type you postulate, then that delay would mean I’ve somehow been cheated out of 1.6¢. But have I? Dollars are fungible. The $100 I already have in my pocket is worth exactly as much as the $100 that banker has, regardless of which note is fresh off the presses. Whatever he can buy with $100 I can buy with mine — more perhaps, as eggs are cheaper in the boondocks than on Manhattan. You seem to be saying that the banker will buy a share of stock and get a 1¢ profit because inflation hasn’t worked its way through — but then the counterparty, also presumably a rich financier, will suffer the 1¢ loss. If your formulation were even sensical. Postulate a 2% _daily_ inflation and things would be more interesting. Your scenario might apply. (Though even then I’m doubtful: traders under hyper-inflation have calibrated the inflation rate.) But a daily inflation rate of 0.005%? I’m unconvinced. I do like your citing an article by an actual economist, Nicolás Cachanosky. However he’s linked to Mises, Hayek and the Alabaman School. :smack: _Since you describe the lesson you were trying to convey as “Econ 101”_, I should hope you could find a more mainstream citation than a minor Alabama-school economist posting at a hyperlibertarian “think tank.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/98 "2018-12-15T20:43:09Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > … > > Because banks, and therefore the shareholders of the banks, are always the first recipients of the dollars that are created, they enjoy the benefit of spending those dollars _before_ inflation hits. It is slow to move from the top hands down the through the economy, because banks don’t generally buy shoes or milk, they buy stocks, derivatives, corporate bonds, and other large investments. The non-smaller-bank beneficiaries of these investments then go on to buy more stocks (usually their own) or capital expenditures (which are now at about parity). Capex goes to smaller corporations, manufacturers, etc, and that finally makes its way to the workers. By that time, the value of the dollar has diminished. In short: the banks get to spend **before** inflation, and you get to spend **after** inflation. > > _That_ is wealth transfer. You are made poorer because the unit of measure is shifted against your favor. _Especially_ where houses are concerned. Wages don’t even come close to matching inflation, either, so you get a lovely double whammy. In the housing market, it is even clearly zero sum: they get to buy the house at a cheaper price, before that money even has a possible means by which to arrive in your hands, and then sell it to you at a marked up price. You seem to be implying that inflation is impossible in a gold based economy. That is not even close to being true. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/99 "2018-12-15T21:12:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Much more about how that cartoon misleads over here: > > [The American Dream (film) - RationalWiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_American_Dream_(film)) Well, not to mention > [@pkbites](#): > > … and is entertaining to boot. Yeah, no. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2018, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124/100 "2018-12-16T08:28:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The idea that each monopolistic geographical entity should have their own little bank and own little pieces of paper with dead people on them is so 20th century provincial nationalism. Libertarians envision a global monetary integration under an unmanipulated currency. Very metropolitan, chic, and forward-looking. Oh, good, it’s like a Nehru jacket for monetary policy and business development–or really, the lack thereof. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-libertarians-always-want-to-abolish-the-federal-reserve/826124.md?page=6)