# Why do men get to legislate abortion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 9, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795 "2003-02-09T01:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/41 "2003-02-09T06:56:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Registered: Jan 2003 > Location: > Posts: 177 > Re: Why do men get to legislate abortion? > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by pizzabrat Only half of the population is affected by abortion laws, > > Sure men have no feelings about having kids or any attachment to the ones they have. They sure wouldn’t affect they guy socially or financially right? It couldn’t possibly be A VERY BIG DEAL to them. I used “affected” in a very specific sense in my OP. I probably shouldn’t have, since that’s what I seem to be getting the most flack for. Anyway, they may be affected, but there’s nothing they can do about it. They can’t have babies and women can, it’s no one’s fault and no amount of legislation can change that. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/42 "2003-02-09T06:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by pizzabrat It’s not possible for Congress to allow or disallow a man to have an abortion. \*\* > > It is possible to allow a man to have an equal say. But why should he, when he could never experience equal consequence? ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/43 "2003-02-09T07:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t make the comment he responded to. That was BURNER’s That’s true, \*\*pizzabrat, \*\* but it’s still absolutely pertinent to your OP, and your take on **JThunder’s** statement is one that I’d like to hear. > [@](#): > > But I hold the belief that you can’t legislate against reality, and reality dictates that only women can get pregnant. Nature trumps our national ideology of equality, in this case. That women are the only ones that can get pregnant is true. But if men are kept from voting on feminine reproductive issues like abortion…well, then you might get started down an unpleasantly slippery slope. Race is also “nature.” Should white legislators be prevented from voting on issues that concern mainly blacks or other minorities? Or, as **Pucky** asked, should female legislators be prevented from voting on prostate cancer issues? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/44 "2003-02-09T07:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*But why should he, when he could never experience equal consequence? \*\* If men had the children, you would not be making this argument. Plainly put, you’d be demanding “equality.” Such hypocrisy makes your entire platform seem like opportunistic manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/45 "2003-02-09T07:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*But why should he, when he could never experience equal consequence? \*\* Which, as I pointed out, can actually make him more objective. That is, he has less of a personal vested interest in the outcome. This can be both a plus and a minus. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/46 "2003-02-09T07:07:16Z")
Q: Should women who aren’t pregnant have more of a vote then men, but less of a vote them pregnant women in pizzabrat’s world? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/47 "2003-02-09T07:13:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*Q: Should women who aren’t pregnant have more of a vote then men, but less of a vote them pregnant women in pizzabrat’s world? \*\* I think we have to break the vote into trimesters. The right to vote begins at conception. A woman then has 1/3 of a full vote. Second trimester, 2/3rds. At nine months, she has a full vote, but loses it if she delivers in the voting booth. ---
**Author:** ![HoldenCaulfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/22d042/32.png) [@HoldenCaulfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoldenCaulfield)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/48 "2003-02-09T07:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > **No man could ever get pregnant, so who are they to legislate pregnancy?** Forget men; we need to stop infertile women from voting on pregnancy issues. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/49 "2003-02-09T07:23:08Z")
Persephone: > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## I didn’t make the comment he responded to. That was BURNER’s > > That’s true, pizzabrat, but it’s still absolutely pertinent to your OP, and your take on JThunder’s statement is one that I’d like to hear. BURNER said that men should have no place in the abortion discussion, to which JThunder responded that men had a say in the Roe V. Wade decision. I said that men shouldn’t be able to legislate to restict abortion, because when you restrict something in a law, you’re supposed to give up your right to do the same. > [@](#): > > That women are the only ones that can get pregnant is true. But if men are kept from voting on feminine reproductive issues like abortion…well, then you might get started down an unpleasantly slippery slope. Race is also “nature.” Should white legislators be prevented from voting on issues that concern mainly blacks or other minorities? Or, as Pucky asked, should female legislators be prevented from voting on prostate cancer issues? Our constitution prevents laws that discriminate based on race. What law could parallel the abortion issue regarding race? Besides, “race” isn’t as concrete and real as sex. And I don’t know anything about laws concerning prostate cancer issues. Pucky: > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by pizzabrat But why should he, when he could never experience equal consequence? > > If men had the children, you would not be making this argument. Plainly put, you’d be demanding “equality.” Such hypocrisy makes your entire platform seem like opportunistic manipulation. I see you still haven’t fixed your What-if machine from the commedian thread. Or perhaps your finglonger just slipped. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/50 "2003-02-09T07:26:53Z")
…and post-menapausal women. They’re all getting in the way. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/51 "2003-02-09T07:26:58Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by pizzabrat But why should he, when he could never experience equal consequence? > > Which, as I pointed out, can actually make him more objective. That is, he has less of a personal vested interest in the outcome. This can be both a plus and a minus. And I ignored it the first time because I thought it was insane. It doesn’t matter if a third party is more “objective”. The woman isn’t a child, if it’s her problem, she makes the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/52 "2003-02-09T07:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*And I ignored it the first time because I thought it was insane. It doesn’t matter if a third party is more “objective”. The woman isn’t a child, if it’s her problem, she makes the decision. \*\* And if the female in fact is a child: You’re saying her father (or mother) should have no ability to influence the situation? Also, when has a pregnancy ever just been “her problem”? If you’re advocating that no one else has to contribute to her care, that’s an entirely different story. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/53 "2003-02-09T07:33:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Q: Should women who aren’t pregnant have more of a vote then men, but less of a vote them pregnant women in pizzabrat’s world? No, because the non-pregnant women still CAN be pregnant, and thus will be theoretically sacrificing her potential right to an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/54 "2003-02-09T07:35:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > \*\*No, because the non-pregnant women still CAN be pregnant, and thus will be theoretically sacrificing her potential right to an abortion. \*\* Not past menopause. Shall we yank their right to vote? ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/55 "2003-02-09T07:40:28Z")
Men (and women) in power (at least nowadays) represent their constituancies. I’m no demographer, but I would assume that much of the constituancies of legislators, at least in the US, are women. Whoever gets the most votes wins, so theoretically, legislators represent the views of their constituancies. Women are in a majority. Thus, if all women voted, the legislators must represent the opinions of women in their districts. If women choose not to vote, they are, in effect, deferring their power to affect change to the rest of the population. They choose to “let someone else decide.” I would contend that women do legislate. They just do so by proxy. ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/56 "2003-02-09T07:43:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I said that men shouldn’t be able to legislate to restict abortion, because when you restrict something in a law, you’re supposed to give up your right to do the same. You’re going to have to stop avoiding this, **pizzabrat.** You and I both know that men can’t have abortions. But men made the legal decisions that GAVE women the right to an abortion. Why should their rights to legislate regarding abortion issues stop there? > [@](#): > > Our constitution prevents laws that discriminate based on race. What law could parallel the abortion issue regarding race? Besides, “race” isn’t as concrete and real as sex. Our constitution prevents laws that discriminate based on gender, too. And preventing men from having a say in legislative issues regarding abortion, simply because they are not female and cannot get pregnant, is gender discrimination. **pizzabrat.** ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/57 "2003-02-09T07:51:08Z")
Does anyone have any statistics on the percentage of abortion providers who are male? I think you can see where I’m going with this, but anyway … It seems like nearly every abortion doctor I’ve seen or heard interviewed was male. One way to settle this would be to take the vote away from all men – including the pro-choice ones – and then have just the women vote on it. But, depending on where you live, the majority of women might vote against it, and then where would you be? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/58 "2003-02-09T07:59:16Z")
Pucky: > [@](#): > > One way to settle this would be to take the vote away from all men – including the pro-choice ones – and then have just the women vote on it. But, depending on where you live, the majority of women might vote against it, and then where would you be? What do you mean where would I be? The same place I always was. If they want to outlaw it, what do I care? They’re women, it’s their issue. Persephone: > [@](#): > > You’re going to have to stop avoiding this, pizzabrat. You and I both know that men can’t have abortions. But men made the legal decisions that GAVE women the right to an abortion. Why should their rights to legislate regarding abortion issues stop there? Didn’t you read JThunder’s posts? Rights aren’t “given” by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/59 "2003-02-09T08:05:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pizzabrat \* > **Pucky: > What do you mean where would I be? The same place I always was. If they want to outlaw it, what do I care? They’re women, it’s their issue.** I find it hard to believe you have nothing invested in this emotionally or philosophically. But if you seriously wanted to restrict the vote to only those who are capable of getting pregnant, you eliminate a large portion of women as well. ---
**Author:** ![MAV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@MAV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MAV)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795/60 "2003-02-09T08:25:57Z")
There are laws in the United States that prohibit women from exposing their bare chests in public, although the same laws do not apply to men. I would guess that these laws were probably conceived and passed by a majority of men. Shall we throw them out as well? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-get-to-legislate-abortion/153795.md?page=4)