# Why do men name women in song? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674 "2001-02-01T04:00:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/1 "2001-02-01T04:00:04Z")
One thing that struck me using Napster: sooooo many songs are made with men crooning about specific women, moreso than women singing about specific men. Beatles easily have close to a half-dozen or so (_Michelle, Lucy in the Sky, Elanor Rigby, etc._) as do pop singers like Michael Jackson (_Billy Jean_, _Dirty Diana_), jazz impressarios like Miles Davis (_Stella by Starlight_) and hip-hop artists like A Tribe Called Quest (_Bonita Applebaum_ and even Eminem (_Kim_ – easily the least flattering.) In fact, Toni Basil (_Mickey_) is the only woman singer who sings about a guy I can think of, offhand. R&B female singers do a lot of general songs (_My Guy, Whatta Man, Let’s Hear It For The Boy, Roughnecks, Thugs, Smooth Operators, etc._) but they rarely name names when it comes to lost loves or whatever. Even Erykah Badu doesn’t really sing about a Tyrone in _Tyrone._ (Well… maybe Lil’ Kim in _How Many Licks_) Is there a commercial reason for this? Are lesbian singers like K.D. Lang any different? Or does all this fall into the vague realm of gender-based behavior? If the latter’s the case, I apologize for not posting this in another forum. ---
**Author:** ![ookpik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c68b51/32.png) [@ookpik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ookpik)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/2 "2001-02-01T04:59:01Z")
Napster should by no means be considered an authoritative database. People make available only those recordings that they have on hand, purchased or otherwise. Beyond that however, I would suspect that a male composer would be more likely to voice his complaints/dissatisfaction in a song based on one example of a poor experience, whereas a female songwriter would be more inclined to express herself or voice her opinion, based on a number of unpleasant experiences/relationships. Just my 2 cents. (but my oldest penny is from the fifties…) Ook. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/3 "2001-02-01T05:12:02Z")
Because of my mom, I grew up listening to music from the fifties and sixties. It seems as though a lot of women mentioned men by names in songs. I remember wondering once whether Johnny was an unusually common name in the fifties or whether it was just generic enough for songwriters. “Johnny Angel” is the first example that comes to mind, and I think the male character in “Leader of the Pack” was called Johnny. However, the only recent song I can think of that mentions a man by name is Reba McIntyre’s (spelling?) “She Thinks his Name was John.” ---
**Author:** ![Teach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@Teach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teach)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/4 "2001-02-01T06:12:23Z")
It does seems as if you have to be called John to get a woman to mention you in a pop song. In addition to “Johnny Angel” there’s “Johnny Loves Me” and “Johnny Get Angry”. Other guys are named only when another guy is singing about his girlfriend. Remember “Bobby’s Girl”, “Jessie’s Girl” or “Jimmy’s Girl”? Joni Mitchell may be an exception, although her songs with guy’s names in the titles were never big hits. There are even two on a single album - “Carey” and “The Last Time I Saw Richard” on “Blue” On the same album, on the other hand, there’s the usual anonymous guy in “My Old Man”. I have no good explanation, however, for why many women singers tend not to include guy’s names in the titles of their songs. Maybe they think men don’t deserve the recognition. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/5 "2001-02-01T08:21:28Z")
I think it’s because men have traditionally used music to woo women, while we don’t have a tradition of women singing to their lovers to express love. Love songs by female singers tend to be the “I’m in love and it’s great” kind, not the “I love you” kind. ---
**Author:** ![d\_ugh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@d\_ugh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_ugh)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/6 "2001-02-01T09:27:59Z")
My $0.02 is that in the case of men they _visibly_ seek lots of partners and so need names to distinguish them, while women _visibly_ have only one partner and so need no name. That is, recent studies (ha and do you think I could find the ref on my desk when I wanted it) show women and other femal mammals are attracted to males that are “spoken for”. One interpretation - and there are many - is that it makes mate searching easier, this male has already demonstrated he can be a good mate [except of course he is unfaithful]. i.e. sexual selection by women has been and may still be a signifigant factor in human evolution. (Darwin wittered on about this for nearly 900 pages in The descent of man and selection in relation to sex). That is a short version of the arguments about the incidence of and reasons for “extra-marital sex”. See, for example, Jared Dimaond, Rise and Fall of the Thrid Chimpanzee" for the full argument. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/7 "2001-02-01T12:08:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Askia K. Hale \* > **In fact, Toni Basil (_Mickey_) is the only woman singer who sings about a guy I can think of, offhand.** And even this one gets an asterisk–the song was originally titled _Kitty_, and Basil changed the name to a male when she recorded it. I agree with the overall theme–I’ve even heard radio stations run special programs of just “songs with women’s names” but never a men’s names special–but I can add a few more females-singing-about-specific-males songs: **Joey** by Concrete Blond (1990); **L. David Sloane** , a minor hit for Michelle Lee in 1968 (also a candidate for Angriest Female Pop Song–“get off my… _back!_”–pre-Alanis Morrisette division); **Luka** , Suzanne Vega, 1987 (also had **Tom’s Diner** –not sure if that counts); **Chuck E.'s in Love** , Rickie Lee Jones, 1979; **Mr. Lee** , the Bobettes, 1957; **Sweet William** , Millie Small, 1964; **Nathan Jones** , The Supremes, 1971; **Eddie My Love** (three different top-40 versions in 1956); and **Frederick** , Patti Smith Group, 1979. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/8 "2001-02-01T16:23:38Z")
In the words of Louden Wainwright III: “The bed’s so soft, the sheets are clean, Your girlfriend said you were ninteen, I’ll write a song for you, and put it on my next LP. Come on up to my motel room, and sleep with me.” Now how’s she gonna feel when you can’t even remember her name to put into the song? Huh? Tris ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/9 "2001-02-01T17:16:37Z")
How about Janis Joplin’s “Me and Bobby McGee”? I’m not much of a country fan, but the Dixie Chicks’ “Goodbye Earl” is another one (You gotta love Dennis Franz as Earl in the video). ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/10 "2001-02-01T17:34:40Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by whitetho \* \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Askia K. Hale \* > **Luka** , Suzanne Vega, 1987_\* Isn’t “Luka” a woman? “My name is Luka/I live on the second floor…” etc. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/11 "2001-02-01T18:50:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sewalk \* > \*\*How about Janis Joplin’s “Me and Bobby McGee”? \*\* Written by Kris Kristofferson. Another girl-group song naming men that sprang to mind was “Jimmy Mack” by Martha and the Vandellas (although written by Holland/Dozier/Holland). ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/12 "2001-02-01T18:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sewalk \ ***How about Janis Joplin’s “Me and Bobby McGee”?** This, by the way, is another example of a song which underwent a “sex change”. Roger Miller had the original country hit version, “Me and Bobbie McGee”, two years before Janis Joplin recorded it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \*\*\*Isn’t “Luka” a woman? “My name is Luka/I live on the second floor…” etc. \*\* From _One Hit Wonders_: “‘I didn’t want Luka to be a self-pitying song about a boy sitting on a stoop feeling miserable,’ said Vega… All I wanted to do was reveal his point of view.’” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/13 "2001-02-01T19:22:12Z")
Hmmm…well, there are lots of other songs with men’s names in them? Not necessarily written by women, either. In fact, some women write songs with OTHER women’s names in them, sort of like a friend, or a lover or something. Billy Bailey Alexander’s Ragtime Band Billy Don’t Be a Hero Bad Bad Leroy Brown Richard Corey (a poem, set to music by Simon and Garfunkel) Johnny B. Goode Hey Jude Hit the Road Jack Daniel Vincent (Starry Starry Night-LOVE that song!) I think there WERE some cheesy love songs by female singers, (don’t know who wrote 'em) Eddie My Love In the song Wedding Bell Blues, you have the 5th Dimension singing, “Bill! I love you so I always will.” ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2001, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/14 "2001-02-01T23:59:46Z")
The underlying premise of the OP having been shown to be in error, I’ll move this thread to IMHO to see if an exhaustive list can be compiled. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/15 "2001-02-02T01:59:45Z")
How did we forget Bobbie Gentry’s 1967 classic, **Ode to Billy Joe**? Also, Abba’s 1975 **Fernando** , Annette Funicello’s 1959 **Tall Paul** , Ann Murray’s 1973 **Danny’s Song** , and Carly Simon’s 1980 **Jesse**. But don’t let anyone tell you Olivia Newton John’s 1977 **Sam** was about a man–that one was an ode to her _dog_. I’ll go quietly… ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/16 "2001-02-02T02:03:27Z")
Poe has “Angry Johnny” There’s “You Don’t Mess Around with Jim”… “Jim Dandy (to the Rescue)” “Lessons” by Brownie Mary mentions a guy named Johnny. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/17 "2001-02-02T02:42:14Z")
Manhatten: My underlying theme has hardly been shown to be in error. I NEVER said there weren’t specific songs about men – just that _women_ don’t sing that many songs about specific men. You can cobble all the female country singers and doo-wop girl groups all you like, but you can still come up with more warbling-men-singing-about-women, than the reverse. But I’m glad you moved the thread. Guinastasia: I haven’t heard all the songs you’ve listed, but Chuck Berry’s _Johnny B. Goode_ and Jim Croche’s _Bad, Bad Leroy Brown_ and ANYTHING by Simon and Garfunkel don’t count, because they’re just men singing about men. I’d let it slide if they were love songs, tho. 😉 Teach: Not just the omission in the titles of songs, but in the lyrics, too. I mean, I’ve heard a few rap ballads were women were mentioned by name but omitted in the title - (Slick Rick and Snoop Dogg both did turns with Sally and her Moms in _Lodi Dodi_, Stevie Wonder croons about his daughter Iesha in _Isn’t She Lovely?_) - but I don’t hear it as much in women’s songs. More men-singing-about-specific-women songs: Lou Vega: Must go through a few dozen in Mambo no. 5 Puff Daddy, the Police, and UTFO: Roxanne Carlos Santana: Maria, Maria Billy Paul, Luther Vandross: Me and Mrs. Jones Cab Calloway: Minnie the Moocher Chuck Berry: Maybelline Four Tops: Bernadette Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons: Sherry Nat King Cole: Mona Lisa, Ramblin’ Rose O’Jays: Brandy Outkast: Ms. Jackson, Rosa Parks Ready For the World: Oh, Sheila Rick James: Mary Jane (buuuut that could just be about weed) Toto: Rosanna Whispers: Olivia (buuuut re-listening to the lyrics, its definitely not a love song) Any more? ---
**Author:** ![Welfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e56c9b/32.png) [@Welfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Welfy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/18 "2001-02-02T02:50:42Z")
There’s always “Alfie” (Jack Jones?) and “Jeremy” (Pearl Jam). As for females singing about a certain man… who sang “Ben”? ---
**Author:** ![Eo\_Echo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ebca7d/32.png) [@Eo\_Echo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eo_Echo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/19 "2001-02-02T03:15:08Z")
“Ben” was sung by Michael Jackson…and the song is about a rat, according to the _Billboard book of Number one Hits._ ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674/20 "2001-02-02T03:37:22Z")
Both _Alfie_ and _Ben_ were movie theme songs. NEITHER of them were sung by women! One’s about a rat!! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-name-women-in-song/52674.md?page=2)