# Why do men think creepiness is based on physical attractiveness? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285 "2014-04-29T16:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/21 "2014-04-29T20:12:20Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Bada bing. Because they don’t want to admit they are responsible for why women don’t like them. I think many women just don’t want to admit to themselves how shallow they can be, and how much of a double standard they employ. Some behaviors are objectively creepy, but it’s pretty clear to me (having worked for years around bars and nightclubs full of cute women, handsome guys, and less attractive onlookers), that innocuous behavior is chiefly defined as creepy when the actor is less attractive, and as desirable when the actor is good-looking. Men sometimes react the same way, but most men are lowering their standards after a few drinks, so it applies to them far less often. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/22 "2014-04-29T20:16:17Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > I know plenty of women that I’ve witnessed do exactly what the OP presents as total horseshit. I’m not saying the other points aren’t equally valid but don’t be so naive to assume it doesn’t happen. > > Friend: “Ugh, such a creeper” after a perfectly normal but not “hot” guy tried to start up a convo in a bar with her. > Me: “What did he do? He just tried to chat with you.” > Friend: “Exactly!” > Me: “If that dude was hot, you’d have been perfectly fine with him approaching you and saying the exact same thing!” > Her: “DUH!” > > I’ve had that convo and variants of it with many of my women friends, past girlfriends, and even my wife. Just like men who call women lesbians when they them women will also use short-hand descriptions. She may not have meant he was creepy, just that she wasn’t interested in being approached. Some politeness on both sides of this issue would help a lot, but I find it doubtful things will change much. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/23 "2014-04-29T20:40:42Z")
Let’s talk about the age aspect of physical attractiveness. The other person appears to be 30 years older than you are. Does this or doesn’t this come across as creepy? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/24 "2014-04-29T20:46:41Z")
One thing that can make behavior seem creepy from a very unattractive man is if the woman thinks that he MUST realize, or at least SHOULD realize, that of she would never be interested in him and so of course his behavior is unwelcome. And that might sound harsh, but it’s not really, it’s just how things work. If an ugly woman goes up and starts hitting on a hot man, he would think “wtf?” just as much. Anyway though, a normal-acting man who just isn’t very attractive is not going to be considered creepy. Yes, a really attractive man might get some more leeway if he does want to act creepy, but regardless of looks you shouldn’t want to act creepy anyway, so it that’s not a perk the average man should be resentful that he doesn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/25 "2014-04-29T20:53:25Z")
Creepiness can often be defined simply as “unwanted advances”. I know that in a perfect world unwanted advances would not be thought creepy if they were handled with tact and discretion (that is, at minimum were not made to clearly inappropriate would-be partners and were not prolonged past the point where they were signalled as unwelcome), but in reality some folks find _any_ unwanted advances “creepy”. Advances are statistically more likely to be “unwanted” from a guy who is ugly. The fact that women are less judgmental on average about looks, combined with the continued social expectation that men make advances more commonly than women, keep ugly guys making advances, because sometimes they do work. Seems as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/26 "2014-04-29T21:08:44Z")
Someone on reddit came up with the equation for creepiness as: Creepiness = ( (Awkwardness x Forwardness) / (Attractiveness) )^Persistence Which jives with me. Basically, the more attractive you are, the more you get away with. But there becomes a point where it doesn’t matter if you’re attractive, creepy is creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/27 "2014-04-29T21:31:13Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > MRA type guys seem to think women make these arbitrary value judgements on men and act like their safety is based on the man’s sexual attractiveness. When in reality, women tend to evaluate a man’s _actions_ and base their safety off that. **It’s not whether the guy looks ugly or not, it’s whether his behavior or appearance is out of place for the setting.** Bolding mine. You’re putting forth an argument that women always use the term in the proper context. Women are just as fallible as men. There’s even a current commercial going around where young women are in a dance club and she makes a flippant reference to shaking off the “creepers”. Unfortunately I don’t remember the product or I’d link the commercial . But in the context of the commercial it does not come across as her referring to actual dangerous _creepy_ men, more of just men that are annoying her in a dance club. It’s said flippantly and referenced to multiple men. A man can walk up to a women in a setting where his behaviour is not considered abnormal and yet still be labeled a creeper. It’s does get misused by some women as a way to dismiss if not shame and denigrate men. To argue it never happens is asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/28 "2014-04-29T22:21:20Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > More specifically, this mistaken belief that women only find “ugly” guys’ behavior creepy: “If he looked like Tom Cruise she wouldn’t have thought it creepy!”. Some men do this to take the attention off the man’s behavior and throw the blame back on the woman. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/29 "2014-04-29T22:30:59Z")
You know who looks like Tom Cruise and is creepy? Tom Cruise. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/30 "2014-04-29T23:44:27Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yes, that’s a great example. I met a guy this weekend (was with my husband, etc.) and he dove in pretty quickly on some more in-depth questions than I’d expected, to the point where I was thinking “we just met, why are you asking me this?” as if he was interviewing me or something. Do that with deeply personal stuff and you will freak someone the fuck out. This is the best description I’ve seen, and the behavior I’ve most frequently witnessed in clueless creepy guys. Creepers have a poor concept of boundaries, physical and conversational. Being good-looking provides a bit more of a buffer, but not much. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/31 "2014-04-30T00:14:32Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > […] I don’t think it would be different if I was actually looking for a man… I just assume that, because they’re men, all men are more or less available to me. But **Surreal** posited a link between creepy/unwanted behavior and unattractive females. Can we get any testimony from the men about unwanted advances and demographics? Question # 1: Who is **Surreal**? Question # 2: Don’t have testimony about unwanted advances. Do have a big ol’ question about unwarranted assumptions. Not even gonna ask you to spell ‘assume’. Bear in mind that even though this is IMHO, all fora here have a core principle of fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/32 "2014-04-30T00:20:54Z")
Related to this discussion, [here is a case](http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161002381) where someone was trolling women on Tinder, using as his profile picture a male model ([Francisco Lachowski](https://www.google.com/search?q=Francisco+Lachowski&tbm=isch)). He was using language that many would consider vile or creepy if it were coming from a regular guy, but since it was coming from someone with his looks, women’s responses were playful. Not saying that women are wrong to act this way, but to claim that this doesn’t happen is to be blind to the obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/33 "2014-04-30T00:32:07Z")
Women will act that way with [cupcakes on Tinder](http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/a-man-posed-as-a-cupcake-on-tinder-and-everyone-lost-their-m), too. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/34 "2014-04-30T00:36:27Z")
This isn’t rocket science, dudes. Hot woman you are friendly with says “I want to suck your cock, whip it out!” = flattering, and if single, probably a welcome invitation Enormous male who happens to be your boss says “I want to suck your cock, whip it out” = unwelcome and likely threatening. That’s really all there is to it. > [@Polerius](#): > > Related to this discussion, [here is a case](http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161002381) where someone was trolling women on Tinder, using as his profile picture a male model ([Francisco Lachowski](https://www.google.com/search?q=Francisco+Lachowski&tbm=isch)). > > He was using language that many would consider vile or creepy if it were coming from a regular guy, but since it was coming from someone with his looks, women’s responses were playful. > > Not saying that women are wrong to act this way, but to claim that this doesn’t happen is to be blind to the obvious. Reading the thread, it doesn’t look to me like a single woman took his over-the-top statements seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/35 "2014-04-30T00:38:47Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Reading the thread, it doesn’t look to me like a single woman took his over-the-top statements seriously. I think some of them might have taken the cupcake seriously. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/36 "2014-04-30T01:36:14Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > This is the best description I’ve seen, and the behavior I’ve most frequently witnessed in clueless creepy guys. Creepers have a poor concept of boundaries, physical and conversational. Being good-looking provides a bit more of a buffer, but not much. A part of attractiveness is effort, though. No matter how naturally handsome a guy is, if he is wearing an unflattering style of glasses repaired with duct tape, hasn’t washed his hair in two weeks, and is underdressed, or ridiculously overdressed for the occasion, it will cancel out a lot of his natural attractiveness. Conversely, being well-groomed, choosing a haircut, glasses, and clothes that are flattering on you, whatever you happen to look like, go a long way toward making you look attractive. The same set of social skills that allow a people to clue into looking right for the occasion, and good in general, are the skills that help him to know that a woman with her face stuck in a book doesn’t want to be hit on by Adonis with a fresh paycheck and a negative HIV test-- and that women who are looking to be hit on still are “look but don’t touch” until you’ve been talking for a while. It’s not like attractiveness is an immalleable quality, that people either have or do not have. It’s over a continuum, and you are somewhere within a range on the continuum. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/37 "2014-04-30T02:13:47Z")
I’d like to make sure I’m getting this straight. Apparently if I’m not good looking I’m not supposed to approach women who don’t want guys who are not good looking approaching them. Is that right? And then if I do, then I’m creepy, or at least I’m going to get called creepy. Is that right? And how am I supposed to know that I’m approaching a woman who doesn’t want a guy who is not good looking to approach her? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/38 "2014-04-30T02:16:36Z")
Don’t approach crazy bitches, and you’re good. Or you can assume crazy bitch behavior by all women and see how well that works for you. (Or maybe, you know, assume not all women are that way.) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_North](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@Richard\_North](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_North)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/39 "2014-04-30T02:24:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’d like to make sure I’m getting this straight. Apparently if I’m not good looking I’m not supposed to approach women who don’t want guys who are not good looking approaching them. Is that right? And then if I do, then I’m creepy, or at least I’m going to get called creepy. Is that right? And how am I supposed to know that I’m approaching a woman who doesn’t want a guy who is not good looking to approach her? Social cues, dude. Not many men seem to pay attention to this. When a woman is interested in you, she will give you signals. In body language and in speech. If she is uninterested she will show that too. Pay attention. Do not hit on women who are uninterested. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/40 "2014-04-30T02:43:28Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Maybe some guys find it easier to tell themselves it was just based on looks instead of confronting the possibility that there’s something deficient in their personality or the way they interact with women. I have a friend who’s in fantastic shape; better than the vast majority of people. It’s a nice swimmer’s build too - nothing bulky. Every single time he gets rejected by a woman he tries to extreme diet because he’s absolutely convinced the only possible reason for his failure is being too fat. It’s sad, but also kind of amazing to hear how sincerely he seems to believe it. It doesn’t seem to have ever crossed his mind it could be some other problem. I believe the true problem is his personality and desperation, but I always want to ask something like, “You’re already really thin. Why are you so sure it’s not because you’re balding? What if women want you to get your teeth whitened? Why _weight_?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285.md?page=3)