# Why do men think creepiness is based on physical attractiveness? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 29, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285 "2014-04-29T16:29:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Richard\_North](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@Richard\_North](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_North)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/61 "2014-04-30T16:35:16Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Maybe. But ‘no chemistry’ is a “safe” way for a woman to turn down a guy on a second date. Maybe some people didn’t feel chemistry, but for maybe others there was something specific they just didn’t want to delve into it. > > Talking to some women online, they mentioned that if they tell the guy its something specific “You talked with your mouth full” “You were rude to the waitress” “You directed the entire evening conversation about yourself”, then the guy will plead for a second date, promising to change. At that point, they are just not invested enough in seeing if it works out on a second try. So they say “I’m just not feeling any chemistry” because its 1.) Not some personal attack about the other person and 2.) Not anything you can really have control over/change. Agreed. Saying “we have no chemistry” is a vague bullshit excuse. No woman in her right mind would turn down a “model-attractive, wealthy, Ivy League intelligent, funny as heck and a real sweetheart” guy. It’s called genetic fitness. If a woman turns down a guy there’s a reason, something about him wasn’t attractive. Only crazy spoiled somethings-somethings turn down good men based on some abstract feeling such as “chemistry”. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/62 "2014-04-30T16:44:15Z")
> [@Richard North](#): > > Saying “we have no chemistry” is a vague bullshit excuse. No woman in her right mind would turn down a “model-attractive, wealthy, Ivy League intelligent, funny as heck and a real sweetheart” guy. It’s called genetic fitness. If a woman turns down a guy there’s a reason, something about him wasn’t attractive. 😕 That is so not true it’s through the looking glass. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/63 "2014-04-30T16:55:31Z")
> [@Richard\_North](#): > > Agreed. > > Saying “we have no chemistry” is a vague bullshit excuse. No woman in her right mind would turn down a “model-attractive, wealthy, Ivy League intelligent, funny as heck and a real sweetheart” guy. It’s called genetic fitness. If a woman turns down a guy there’s a reason, something about him wasn’t attractive. > > Only crazy spoiled somethings-somethings turn down good men based on some abstract feeling such as “chemistry”. I’m not interested in reproducing, and I’m a human being, with thoughts and feelings a bit more complex than just evaluating people based on ‘genetic fitness’. I’ll freely admit I’m not the most attractive woman on the planet, but I still have standards. “Chemistry” basically is short-hand for a lot of things that add up to general romantic interest. Physical attraction is part of it, but it’s basically “do I want to spend time with you” plus “am I attracted to you”. I literally don’t have the capability of being attracted to the most model-looking person in the world if I think they’re an asshole. You could be David Tennant in looks but if you insult the waitress or send me a dick pic before I know your first name, it’s just a no deal for me. Maybe you really want to have a dozen babies, or you’re incredibly religious and spend all your free time ringing doorbells for Jesus. Maybe you really, really, need to tell people about your deep and affirming love for crystal healing, and how doctors are just pimps for the drug industry (who has a cancer cure but won’t sell it to you). Do I really care at that point if you’re handsome and intelligent? I’m not signing on for that. Sorry. Lest people think no behavior is creepy, check out [this subreddit](http://www.reddit.com/r/creepyPMs/)’s high ranking posts. There are some really vile men out there, and I don’t give one whit what they look like. I agree that most ‘creepiness’ is basically involving ignoring (or not noticing) boundaries or rejection, or a general lack of adherence to social norms. For men: imagine you are the weaker gender. There’s plenty of lovely, attractive people of the opposite sex, but a few total skeezeballs who might rape, drug, hurt, or kill you. Or maybe just follow you around and make you really uncomfortable, and not go away if asked. And not a few who are only interested in you as a sexual object (and presume you’re not looking for that). In that situation, is it really that surprising that if a potential partner violates certain social behavioral norms, especially during initial contact, that you’d feel uncomfortable? That’s what creepy is. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/64 "2014-04-30T16:59:30Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > I think many women just don’t want to admit to themselves how shallow they can be, and how much of a double standard they employ. Some behaviors are objectively creepy, but it’s pretty clear to me (having worked for years around bars and nightclubs full of cute women, handsome guys, and less attractive onlookers), that innocuous behavior is chiefly defined as creepy when the actor is less attractive, and as desirable when the actor is good-looking. Men sometimes react the same way, but most men are lowering their standards after a few drinks, so it applies to them far less often. Yes, people are more willing to talk to good looking people. We deem them more trustworthy and intelligent (I don’t know why it is, but it is) and we like looking at them. This isn’t news. Everyone does this, employers do it, potential dates do it, complete strangers who have nothing to go on other than a photo do this. What is your point? It’s true, I am more likely to want to have a conversation with a handsome man who strikes up a conversation with me than a balding fat guy. If the handsome man does something creepy, however, we’re done. Creepiness comes from a lot of places - boundary issues, lacking tact, not picking up on social cues, and more! - but it doesn’t come from level of attractiveness. That’s nice that you’ve seen ugly men be rejected in bars, but I don’t see how you’re concluding from this that it’s happening because he is creepy which of course means he is only creepy because he is ugly. Guys can bash women all they want as being shallow, or they can just recognize they’re being creeps, stop being creeps, then maybe they’ll meet someone and stop being so bitter about it. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/65 "2014-04-30T17:09:07Z")
One thing to add. Yes, what is creepy for one person may not be creepy for another. That’s not because women are shrill, unfair harpies who relentlessly screen men for the quality of their seed. It’s because any idiot can make certain guesses as to whether or not you’re remotely in the same league as someone else. If you’re an 80 year old man and you hobble over to an 18 year old and ask her to a movie, yes, that can absolutely be creepy when it’s perfectly fine for an 18 year old man to do that. Is that really a surprise? Likewise, I’d wager that, for most men, they’d find a 600lb woman with a beard making an overt sexual request at them would very likely be creepy, whereas the same thing wouldn’t be if she were a slender, attractive lady. I will freely admit that some women have exaggerated senses of what is creepy, largely because of exaggerated senses of themselves or to show off to others. It’s a rather unsubtle way of trying to convince others you’re more appealing, right? It’s like playing hard to get; you’re trying to convince others that so many people are attracted to you that you find it tiresome and you can afford very high standards. That doesn’t mean that creepiness isn’t a genuine phenomenon. If people think you’re creepy, attractiveness can have a small part to do with that, but an awful lot of it is based on behavior, and it can be changed. It can be worked past and improved, and I find it sad when less-than-model-looking men just throw up their hands and decide to be bitter and alone because “if I was Tom Cruise, I wouldn’t be creepy”. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/66 "2014-04-30T17:18:40Z")
I have a co worker who is quite short, a ginger, and sports an impressive jewfro. This guy also happens to be the biggest horndog at work. When clubbing with co workers, he’s always talking to women, asking for their number, etc. While some women might find the concept of getting hit on by an overly amorous Leprechaun of a man creepy, most don’t. Probably because as goofy looking as ‘Lucky’ is, he’s also really outgoing and friendly. He has a ton of friends at work, is approachable without being a total pushover, and never laments being single due to his height or appearance. So while some women aren’t interested, his personality and attitude go a long way toward making him not creepy in spite of hitting on women a foot shorter than him 😛 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/67 "2014-04-30T17:19:25Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Maybe. But ‘no chemistry’ is a “safe” way for a woman to turn down a guy on a second date. Maybe some people didn’t feel chemistry, but for maybe others there was something specific they just didn’t want to delve into it. > > Talking to some women online, they mentioned that if they tell the guy its something specific “You talked with your mouth full” “You were rude to the waitress” “You directed the entire evening conversation about yourself”, then the guy will plead for a second date, promising to change. At that point, they are just not invested enough in seeing if it works out on a second try. So they say “I’m just not feeling any chemistry” because its 1.) Not some personal attack about the other person and 2.) Not anything you can really have control over/change. This is the cheat code theory of dating…the idea that if you can just get all the variables right, you will finally be an objectively attractive mate who will automatically be desirable to all women. It doesn’t work like that. You don’t get dropped because you were rude to the waitress, you get dropped because you are a rude and belittling person. The waitress is a symptom. You don’t get dumped for being a bad conversationalist, you get dumped for being self centered and obnoxious. Being a bit nicer to the staff or altering your conversation isn’t going to achieve much, because the real issue is deeper. Personality can be changed, but it’s a longer process. More often, people find a partner who can work with their personally flaws- the person with a quick temper finds someone easy going, or the seriously disorganized person finds a good planner. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/68 "2014-04-30T17:28:30Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Yes, people are more willing to talk to good looking people. We deem them more trustworthy and intelligent (I don’t know why it is, but it is) and we like looking at them. This isn’t news. Everyone does this, employers do it, potential dates do it, complete strangers who have nothing to go on other than a photo do this. What is your point? > > It’s true, I am more likely to want to have a conversation with a handsome man who strikes up a conversation with me than a balding fat guy. If the handsome man does something creepy, however, we’re done. Creepiness comes from a lot of places - boundary issues, lacking tact, not picking up on social cues, and more! - but it doesn’t come from level of attractiveness. That’s nice that you’ve seen ugly men be rejected in bars, but I don’t see how you’re concluding from this that it’s happening because he is creepy which of course means he is only creepy because he is ugly. > > Guys can bash women all they want as being shallow, or they can just recognize they’re being creeps, stop being creeps, then maybe they’ll meet someone and stop being so bitter about it. I’m reading that in the voice of Roseanne Barr, (and I picture hair curlers). It sort of makes a weird sort of sense that way. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/69 "2014-04-30T17:32:39Z")
> [@Richard\_North](#): > > Agreed. > > Saying “we have no chemistry” is a vague bullshit excuse. No woman in her right mind would turn down a “model-attractive, wealthy, Ivy League intelligent, funny as heck and a real sweetheart” guy. It’s called genetic fitness. If a woman turns down a guy there’s a reason, something about him wasn’t attractive. > > Only crazy spoiled somethings-somethings turn down good men based on some abstract feeling such as “chemistry”. I can think of a couple reasons why a woman would turn down that particular Mr. Perfect, all of which fall under the admittedly vague, euphemistic, yet useful term “chemistry”. - Not attracted to you. Too tall, too short, too thin, too hairy, not hairy enough, prefer other races, etc. - Prefer someone within my culture or at least an understanding of it so that he can appreciate my background, my family, and my sensibilities better. - Prefer someone who shared more of my more personalized interests other than just being generically affable. - Averse to someone who is so in line with the convention. Maybe I prefer someone more counter-culture and less cookie-cutter. A bad boy perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/70 "2014-04-30T17:38:27Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > I’m reading that in the voice of Roseanne Barr, (and I picture hair curlers). It sort of makes a weird sort of sense that way. Someone else once said they read me in Wanda Sykes’ voice. For some reason, people seem to think of my voice as shrill. Ha! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/71 "2014-04-30T17:39:09Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Guys that creep on women (particularly young women) on the bus don’t always have that “creepy guy” look to them. So there’s such a thing as a “creepy guy” look? Would say, generally, that it’s an attractive look or an unattractive one? ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/72 "2014-04-30T17:43:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This is the cheat code theory of dating…the idea that if you can just get all the variables right, you will finally be an objectively attractive mate who will automatically be desirable to all women. > > It doesn’t work like that. You don’t get dropped because you were rude to the waitress, you get dropped because you are a rude and belittling person. The waitress is a symptom. You don’t get dumped for being a bad conversationalist, you get dumped for being self centered and obnoxious. Being a bit nicer to the staff or altering your conversation isn’t going to achieve much, because the real issue is deeper. > > Personality can be changed, but it’s a longer process. More often, people find a partner who can work with their personally flaws- the person with a quick temper finds someone easy going, or the seriously disorganized person finds a good planner. Right I already understand that. My point was that in dating situations, particularly online dating where you have a larger pool of people to draw from, people aren’t invested enough to bother explaining the person’s flaws. This used to bother me, because I was enthusiastic about being a less annoying person. I grew up enough to figure it out myself, and my self awareness paid off when I met my wife. During our anniversary, I asked what she found appealing about me. She said I was very polite, asked her a lot of questions and actively engaged her in conversation. Ultimately she was looking for a person with that level of self awareness. Most mature, self actualized people don’t want to hand hold a partner through Socialization 101; they want someone who already had this figured out. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/73 "2014-04-30T17:53:36Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > So there’s such a thing as a “creepy guy” look? Would say, generally, that it’s an attractive look or an unattractive one? Leering, which is something women tend to be more aware of then men. A guy staring at a woman just a little to long will ping her creepy meter. How long is too long? Depends on the person. But if you’re gaze is fixed on a woman who doesn’t know you she’s going to eventually find it creepy. Creepy guys, regardless of attractiveness, will also invade a woman’s personal space. This can be subtle like sitting a little too close, sitting at their table when they’re indicating they want to be left alone, standing in front if the only exit, standing directly behind them, standing above them for long periods of time while they are sitting, standing/sitting in a way that causes “accidental” physical contact when they attempt to move away, etc. Also exposing your penis, some men might not realize this is not a flattering gesture no matter how hung you are. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/74 "2014-04-30T17:58:35Z")
Yeah, if we’re going to talk about biological imperatives, I’d like to point out a far higher priority that many men constantly overlook: not getting killed or raped. Gavin de Becker explained it extremely well in [The Gift of Fear](http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Gavin-Becker-ebook/dp/B0036Z9U2A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398880130&sr=8-1&keywords=gift+of+fear). To paraphrase, a man, in his heart of hearts, is afraid that a woman will laugh at him. A woman, in her heart of hearts, is afraid that a man will kill her. Creepy behavior, that willingness to disregard or inability to understand social cues or explicit statements, means “what I want is more important than your comfort, your choice, or your safety”. Most of the time, women can discount their fears because they’re not in any actual danger, but a man who doesn’t respect their boundaries is going to fire up that fight or flight reaction, and the mildest form of that is calling the man in question a creep. Are some women shallow? Absolutely. Most? No. Are some perfect gentlemen called creeps when they really don’t deserve it? Without doubt. Is that wronged class of men a majority of the so-called creep population? Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/75 "2014-04-30T17:58:57Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > In many threads regarding unwanted attention (generally in the form of guys hitting on women) the topic of physical attraction comes up. More specifically, this mistaken belief that women only find “ugly” guys’ behavior creepy: “If he looked like Tom Cruise she wouldn’t have thought it creepy!”. Yes, why do men think that? > [@](#): > > I think this is a huge steaming pile of horseshit, something schlubby guys complain about to rationalize their inappropriate behavior. Discussing the matter with my wife, she pointed out to me that for some women, it’s the _opposite_ problem: > > Handsome guys can be plenty creepy to women, and it’s often worse because nobody assumes a really handsome looking person is going to act like a creep. So when it does happen, people are less likely to believe the woman. Some women take the guys appearance as an assurance they can let their guard down and get burned as a result. Yes, why do women think that? > [@](#): > > Conversely, the schlubby guys seem to fall on the extreme end of the spectrum. Either they are so self conscious they will be judged by their appearance from women that they avoid doing anything that might come off as creepy, or they double down on cluelessness and act really pushy/annoying around women in social situations. Yes, why do you think that? Yes, why do men, women and you have such bizarre beliefs? > [@](#): > > At my work I have also witnessed this first-hand. Guys that creep on women (particularly young women) on the bus don’t always have that “creepy guy” look to them. Often the guy looked completely benign, until some 15 year old girl sits across from them and the man is going on an on about what a cute top she’s wearing and how nicely she fills it out and what school does she attend? :eek: > > MRA type guys seem to think women make these arbitrary value judgements on men and act like their safety is based on the man’s sexual attractiveness. When in reality, women tend to evaluate a man’s _actions_ and base their safety off that. It’s not whether the guy looks ugly or not, it’s whether his behavior or appearance is out of place for the setting. Yes, why do people with an avowed attachment to sexual equality object to sexist standards of behaviour? [QUOTE=Broomstick] Some men do this to take the attention off the man’s behavior and throw the blame back on the woman. [/quote] Well so far we’ve heard that men will be fine if they can read women’s minds, and that women “initiate” by making eye contact. That it’s good to be confident and assertive, and also to be passive. In other words, some women do what Broomstick accuses some men of doing, they don’t want to admit to being unreasonable or shallow, so they blame a man for being creepy. I dare say some men do the above too. In a better world everyone would be more reasonable. As it is you just have to accept they some people are deeply self-important and unpleasant, and that women can be those things too, no matter how self-righteous some people in this thread might be about it. So you may be called creepy simply for approaching a woman, and you should call it out. Also, claims that women are less picky physically are bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/76 "2014-04-30T18:09:51Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Leering, which is something women tend to be more aware of then men. A guy staring at a woman just a little to long will ping her creepy meter. How long is too long? Depends on the person. But if you’re gaze is fixed on a woman who doesn’t know you she’s going to eventually find it creepy. > > Creepy guys, regardless of attractiveness, will also invade a woman’s personal space. This can be subtle like sitting a little too close, sitting at their table when they’re indicating they want to be left alone, standing in front if the only exit, standing directly behind them, standing above them for long periods of time while they are sitting, standing/sitting in a way that causes “accidental” physical contact when they attempt to move away, etc. > > Also exposing your penis, some men might not realize this is not a flattering gesture no matter how hung you are. Yeah, I’d say those are pretty creepy actions. And I agree (with your OP) that they really don’t have anything to do with someone’s general attractivenss. I just think it would be better to refer to them as actions, behaviors, whatever; rather than associate someone’s “creepiness” with their “looks.” Because there really are guys who think that their (normal) actions will get interpreted as creepy because they’re not good looking, and I don’t think we’re helping anyone by reinforcing that belief. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/77 "2014-04-30T18:25:20Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > Because there really are guys who think that their (normal) actions will get interpreted as creepy because they’re not good looking, and I don’t think we’re helping anyone by reinforcing that belief. Perhaps, but I don’t think it is a woman’s obligation to clarify it if she feels uneasy. I mean could you imagine this scenario? _Guy catcalls woman across the street_ Woman yells back, “Creep! And not because you have a giant mole on your nose. Or that you’re like 5’ 2”. Or that hideous tattoo on your arm. It’s only because you catcalled me!" 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/78 "2014-04-30T18:37:07Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Somewhat related to this thread, I often hear (e.g on this board) that a 50 year old guy who dates 25 year olds is creepy, but when famous 50 year olds like George Clooney date 25 year old models no one says they’re creepy. > > The usual statement is something like “but he’s _too old_ for her”, when the real explanation is “but he’s too old and not famous/rich enough for her”. > > The common thread between the above and the topic of this thread is that there is often some disingenuousness when people talk about why someone is creepy. I suspect a certain amount of it is due to people viewing George Clooney as a hot, desirable man, and presumably his 25-year-old girlfriend as a similarly hot, desirable woman. So they match, and it seems natural. In real life, most 50-something men people know are probably categorized as “middle aged average dude” and not viewed as generally desirable, so if they date a young pretty woman it seems more skeevy. Not arguing that it’s logical, but it’s probably not consciously disingenuous either. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > I’m not interested in reproducing, and I’m a human being, with thoughts and feelings a bit more complex than just evaluating people based on ‘genetic fitness’. . . . Well, you just said it better than I could. But regarding “chemistry,” if it helps anyone believe that it’s a real thing, I once had a very strong experience in the other direction. Met a dude, and we hated each other immediately. There is no way we could have known much about each other’s personalities or behavior, but for some reason we just loathed each other on sight (and no, not in that Hollywood “they’re so going to bone” way). Makes one believe there’s something to the pheromone hypothesis! > [@Incubus](#): > > . . . Also exposing your penis, some men might not realize this is not a flattering gesture no matter how hung you are. It? It. Out?! Out! ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/79 "2014-04-30T18:38:12Z")
Creepy is BEHAVIOR, not appearances. Creepy is continuing to violate someone’s personal boundaries after being told to stop. It’s also violating a boundary that any rational human being can assume is in place, like walking up behind someone you’ve never / have just met at a party and groping them. In short, creepy is a complete disregard for the concept of consent. This needs to be required reading for any guy who thinks that looks plays any part of this. Especially the parts about understanding when you are being told NO. It’s not cute to persist after you’ve been declined, no matter how hot you are, and I don’t know any person who thinks it is. [Socially Awkward Isn't An Excuse](http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/03/socially-awkward-isnt-an-excuse/) Data point: I’ve been creeped on by an extraordinarily hot man. It wasn’t cute. It did NOT encourage me to date him. In fact, it absolutely ensured I ran the other way, and breathed a sigh of relief at having dodged a bullet. The age difference thing that a couple people have brought up is a red herring. If a man of ANY age, who is a total stranger to me, walks up to me and the first thing out of their mouth is “We should go out on a date,” I will think he is creepy. Because his **behavior** is inappropriate. If I don’t even know your name, I’m not going to consent to date you, and as I mentioned above, rational human beings are aware of that very basic boundary of human interaction. On the other hand, if a 70-year-old man was behind me in line at the coffee shop, made a comment about the book I was holding, and responded appropriately to my ensuing response and body language, that is NOT creepy. If I shrug and turn my back on him, and he backs off: not creepy. If I choose to engage him in a conversation, and we talk about the book: not creepy. If he starts talking about the book, and then tries to force the conversation towards sex: creepy. If we talk about the book for 20 minutes, and he then asks if I’d like to continue the conversation tomorrow over coffee: kind of sad, but not creepy. If he responds to my subsequent “No, thanks” with dramatic, mortal offense and calls me names: creepy as ever-fuck. BE HAV I OR. Not age. Not looks. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285/80 "2014-04-30T18:39:57Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Perhaps, but I don’t think it is a woman’s obligation to clarify it if she feels uneasy. I mean could you imagine this scenario? > > _Guy catcalls woman across the street_ > > Woman yells back, “Creep! And not because you have a giant mole on your nose. Or that you’re like 5’ 2”. Or that hideous tattoo on your arm. It’s only because you catcalled me!" 😛 Of course not. I just meant in your OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-men-think-creepiness-is-based-on-physical-attractiveness/687285.md?page=5)