# Why do modern cars still have 2 and 1 on the stick? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 3, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081 "2013-06-03T23:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/41 "2013-06-04T16:31:04Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > What length poses a problem? There are problems, and there are _problems_. I’ll let others speak to when your brakes would heat up enough to cause acute damage (probably just a few miles), but I downshift everyday heading into work for the first 1.5 miles of my trip. The speed limit is 35 mph there and the road has some decent grade. I’d drift up to 60+ mph if I didn’t downshift or ride the brakes. My brakes wouldn’t suddenly fail in this short distance, but they would certainly wear out a lot faster, and people behind me would have to see my brake lights on the whole time, which sort of defeats the purpose of brake lights. Thus, I downshift. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/42 "2013-06-04T16:36:45Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > What length poses a problem? > > The worst hill I know in the North Jersey area is Rt 280 downhill from West Orange to the Parkway. Max 6% grade for about 4 miles, I think, but it varies between steep and not-so-steep. I’ve never downshifted, but I don’t ride the brake the whole time either. I let the car accelerate to to about 55-60, and then slowly get down to a little under 55, and repeat several times. Is that harmful? > > I’ve always presumed that downshifting is for mountains that are much longer or much steeper than that. Fight my ignorance, please! You’ll certainly wear out your brakes a little faster, but that doesn’t really count as “harm.” You’re not using your brakes non-stop, so you don’t have to worry about overheating them. There’s not really any hard rule for when to downshift–it depends on the road, traffic conditions, etc. There’s a couple of one-block-long hills in my area that I downshift for–but they’re considerably steeper than anything you have. If your car has “D-3-2-1” or something similar, as so many modern cars do, you could try putting it in 3, and see what happens. 55 mph is far too fast for 2, except in true emergencies. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/43 "2013-06-04T16:45:56Z")
The shifter on my mom’s car goes “PRNDB”. Took me a while to figure out what “B” stood for. Seems to me the obvious approach is to link an inclinometer with a TPS: if the grade exceeds, say, 5%, the braking gear could be selected by the throttle position (how my car figures out how fast I want to go), upshifting as I press down on it. Does not address the “hunting” issue on climbs – though I suppose that could be worked in as well. And, of course, an off switch for the controller. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/44 "2013-06-04T17:05:40Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Max 6% grade for about 4 miles, I think, but it varies between steep and not-so-steep. I’ve never downshifted, but I don’t ride the brake the whole time either. I let the car accelerate to to about 55-60, and then slowly get down to a little under 55, and repeat several times. Is that harmful? > > I’ve always presumed that downshifting is for mountains that are much longer or much steeper than that. Fight my ignorance, please! The other issue is how curvy the road is. The main road around here that I consistently use low gear on is the road to the top of Mount Greylock, which is about 7 miles with a average grade of overall average grade of about 6%, including a three-mile section with an average grade of 9% and some sections over 10%. Some of the hairpin turns have maximum speeds of 15 mph; god help anyone who tries to navigate them at a speed much over 35 mph. For comparison, there’s a stretch of road on Highway 2 near here that has an average 5.6% grade over 4 miles. I don’t usually downshift on that one, though maybe I should. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/45 "2013-06-04T17:25:46Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Manual transmission is still very much of today - many drivers prefer it and many places (though not in North America) require that you know how to drive stick before they’ll give you a driver’s licence. Good luck renting a car in Europe if you don’t know how to drive stick. I’ve rented an automatic in Europe. They’re available, just more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/46 "2013-06-04T19:19:06Z")
Thanks, all. I really have been wondering this for a while. You guys really have some HILLS! ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/47 "2013-06-04T20:03:56Z")
I grew up in rural New England, with three miles of curving, unpaved one-lane road between us and the nearest pavement. The seasons could be identified by their driving hazards - Snow and ice, mud, dust, and fallen leaves. I’m very glad my automatic transmission still provided to option to shift down manually to gears 1 through 3 at need. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/48 "2013-06-04T20:04:20Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Actually, my Hyundai does not have 1 or 2. It does have a setting off “D” where you can switch down gears. You also use it to go back up. Same with Prius. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/49 "2013-06-04T20:12:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > nyhow, those 1 and 2 settings are very useful for hills where you want to use engine braking to keep your speed reasonable rather than riding your brake. This. My town has a lot of long, slightly-inclined streets, with long distances between stop signs/traffic lights, along with 25-30 MPH speed limits. On some of these streets, if I’m traveling in the “downhill” direction, with my transmission in “D”, I can easily accelerate to 35+ MPH _without touching my gas pedal_. And, frankly, it’s extremely tiring and uncomfortable to lightly ride my brakes all the way down these “hills”, in some cases for almost a mile at a time. Not to mention that, if I have to stop suddenly, the driver behind me gets no warning because my brake lights have already been lit up the whole time. It’s much easier to shift to “2”, which does a good job of holding my speed down to 30 MPH. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/50 "2013-06-04T21:04:21Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Note that the low gears are present (and necessary) in all transmissions. It would be possible for a car to prevent you from manually selecting them, but would not be possible to omit them. \The Tesla Model S has a 1-speed gearbox. A fuel-burning car could conceivably be built with just one speed, but it would have crappy acceleration and efficiency.\ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/51 "2013-06-04T21:29:41Z")
I see a lot of people using 2 (aka L), but do people really use 1 all that often? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/52 "2013-06-04T21:50:41Z")
Doubt it. The last time I saw anyone use it was my dad, in a Land Cruiser, driving up a sand dune while towing a boat. While also in low range and four-wheel-drive. In 1993. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/53 "2013-06-04T21:54:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Doubt it. The last time I saw anyone use it was my dad, in a Land Cruiser, driving up a sand dune while towing a boat. While also in low range and four-wheel-drive. In 1993. For about 20 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/54 "2013-06-04T21:55:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I see a lot of people using 2 (aka L), but do people really use 1 all that often? Come to the mountains, it’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/55 "2013-06-04T22:09:57Z")
When I lived in Pittsburgh, lower gears came in handy when driving snow-covered hills. When descending, they kept the brakes from overheating, and breaking on snow-covered hills always carries the risk of sliding. I tried to go down them as slowly as possible to prevent loss of control. I shudder to think of going down some of those hills in D before the plows got to them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/56 "2013-06-04T22:12:12Z")
Applying the brakes is known as braking, not breaking. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/57 "2013-06-04T22:20:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Applying the brakes is known as braking, not breaking. 😉 If you don’t brake, you break. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/58 "2013-06-04T22:24:04Z")
Well, sliding certainly carries the risk of breaking. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/59 "2013-06-04T22:30:26Z")
I have no idea if anyone is interested but European trucks are mostly automatic these days. They are not like car gearboxes though, but they have a conventional 12 speed gearbox and a computer operated set of servos to operate a dry clutch and change the gears. They mostly have a manual override and it is possible to force a change up or down even in auto mode. On a down hill, the easy way is to use the cruise control, which will operate the exhaust brake as speed increases above what it is set at. Forcing a downshift makes the exhaust brake more effective. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081/60 "2013-06-04T23:11:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, sliding certainly carries the risk of breaking. And in some cases, you break it, you’ve bought it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-modern-cars-still-have-2-and-1-on-the-stick/660081.md?page=4)