# Why do most Americans deny evolution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801 "2005-12-31T00:16:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/321 "2016-05-13T00:14:25Z")
Another early evolutionist was Nasir al-Dīn Tusi, the 13th-century astronomer whose writings inspired Copernicus. And by the time Darwin wrote his comprehensive and eloquent book, the keys were all in place. As Darwin himself eventually admitted, the notion of natural selection was already fully present in [the Appendix to the very obscure 1831 book _On Naval Timber and Arboriculture_ by Patrick Matthew](https://books.google.co.th/books?id=4PFhAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA365&lpg=PA365#v=onepage&q&f=false). The eminent American intellectual Sam Brownback [had this to say about evolution](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/opinion/31brownback.html?_r=0): > [@](#): > > The question of evolution goes to the heart of this issue. If belief in evolution means simply assenting to microevolution, small changes over time within a species, I am happy to say, as I have in the past, that I believe it to be true. If, on the other hand, it means assenting to an exclusively materialistic, deterministic vision of the world that holds no place for a guiding intelligence, then I reject it. (I found Brwonback’s words ambiguous and emailed his campaign office: _Are we descended from monkeys or not?_ but received no replay.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/322 "2016-05-13T00:34:35Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I started with the Wikipedia article [“History of evolutionary thought”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_evolutionary_thought) and they claim this all started in the 6th Century B.C. You can gather your citations there. > > Darwin and Wallace didn’t work in a vacuum … Trust me, I’m well acquainted with the history of evolutionary thought. I was specifically addressing evolution by means of natural selection. Darwin wasn’t a genius because he figured out that things evolved. He was a genius because he figure out how. Sure, he built on the knowledge of others, and if he hadn’t published in 1859, someone else would have shortly thereafter. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/323 "2016-05-13T01:34:13Z")
One point that I don’t think has been made in this zombie is that our design is not very intelligent. This point is made best in Jerry Coyne’s book, Why Evolution is True. But I will give somewhat garbled versions of couple examples. One is that the optic nerves come out of the front of the retina and have to go through a hole in the retina (the blind spot) in order to get to the brain. Octopus eyes have their nerves emerging behind, but we did not evolve from octopuses (although we have common ancestors, likely eyeless or at least with much more primitive eyes). A second example is the sperm tube that goes from the prostate to the penis routed through the abdominal cavity creating weak points in that wall that very often lead to hernias. A third involves the trigeminal nerve following a similar circuitious route in the face that, for some reason, gives rise to hicups. All these and many other anatomic features wouldn’t be expected in intelligent design. But the results of evolution are very path dependent and you would not expect something that evolves to be truly best. Only better than any nearby design, a very different beast. A good analogy is hill climbing. Imagine a blind man trying to find the highest point in a landscape. He can tell if he ascending and descending so he continues to ascend until he cannot find any upward path. At this point he is at a local maximum and cannot see that there are higher points, perhaps quite near. To continue the analogy, further imagine that an earthquake tilts the whole landscape. Suddenly his peak is no longer a peak and he might find a new path upward and new local peak. This is how evolution works. You hit local peaks until there is a big change in the environment and then suddenly everything either goes extinct or quickly evolves to a new peak. This is why the Gould-Eldridge theory of puncuated evolution is so convincing. It is what I would actually expect. As I read the early posts of this thread I was taken by the fact that at least three of posters were BANNED. What did they all do to get banned? ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/324 "2016-05-13T01:46:08Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > By the way, **bonitahi2** , you might want to contact a moderator about getting your new account merged with your original account. It is against board rules to have two accounts, even if you are only using the new account, and it is one of the few things they give an instant ban for. If you contact a mod, though, they will give you assistance with getting the two accounts merged. You need to contact them first, though. Don’t wait until it’s too late. Thanks cochrane for the advise. I did not realize that rule. I was unable for many years to sign in, due likely to changing computers, and losing my password. So I would still visit semi-frequently lurking in the background, reading with interest…and learning- yet unable to participate. In the 4th Q of 2015 I wrote to SD four times (I forget to whom I wrote)asking for a new password for my origin sig, and or for help in being able to sign in. I received no response. So I opened a new acct. Now that I realize I am in violation of SD rules I will chose a moderator randomly and do what you suggested- ask for my orig account back 🙂 With my old original and comfortable sig back on my computer likely my life in general will be less stressful. I really loved that sig. I was a charter member and a subscription payer for a couple-few years in the day. Thank you again, cochrane. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/325 "2016-05-13T02:37:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > . . . "the theory of evolution with Darwin’s contributions didn’t exist before Darwin contributed to it. . . . " Oh, well, that’s tautological. Possibly a careless phrasing of a slightly different point. Anyway, physical change over time was kind of “in the air” in the 19th, 18th, and even 17th centuries. I thought that was what was “being whispered in corridors.” Darwin (and Wallace) were the first to define a mechanism that stands up to observation. Lamarck did define a mechanism…but it fails under observation. (Lysenko tried to revive it…and got nowhere.) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/326 "2016-05-13T03:02:22Z")
> [@bonitahi2](#): > > Thanks cochrane for the advise. I did not realize that rule. I was unable for many years to sign in, due likely to changing computers, and losing my password. So I would still visit semi-frequently lurking in the background, reading with interest…and learning- yet unable to participate. > > In the 4th Q of 2015 I wrote to SD four times (I forget to whom I wrote)asking for a new password for my origin sig, and or for help in being able to sign in. I received no response. So I opened a new acct. > > Now that I realize I am in violation of SD rules I will chose a moderator randomly and do what you suggested- ask for my orig account back 🙂 > > With my old original and comfortable sig back on my computer likely my life in general will be less stressful. I really loved that sig. I was a charter member and a subscription payer for a couple-few years in the day. > > Thank you again, cochrane. You’re welcome. Now that you’re back, I’d like to see you stick around. I’d hate to see you leave again because of something that can be easily fixed. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801/327 "2016-05-13T03:53:13Z")
> [@bonitahi2](#): > > Thanks cochrane for the advise. I did not realize that rule. I was unable for many years to sign in, due likely to changing computers, and losing my password. So I would still visit semi-frequently lurking in the background, reading with interest…and learning- yet unable to participate. > > In the 4th Q of 2015 I wrote to SD four times (I forget to whom I wrote)asking for a new password for my origin sig, and or for help in being able to sign in. I received no response. So I opened a new acct. > > Now that I realize I am in violation of SD rules I will chose a moderator randomly and do what you suggested- ask for my orig account back 🙂 > > With my old original and comfortable sig back on my computer likely my life in general will be less stressful. I really loved that sig. I was a charter member and a subscription payer for a couple-few years in the day. > > Thank you again, cochrane. Try posting in “About this Message Board” … that might get you quicker results. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-americans-deny-evolution/337801.md?page=16)