# Why do most espresso chains make such horrible espresso? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363 "2010-01-17T22:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/21 "2010-01-19T11:14:25Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > I also remember a Parisian guy explaining to me that Starbucks survives in Paris because the American tourists go there - it is familiar, and Starbucks serves larger volume drinks, which, according to him, Americans prefer. I believe that Parisian was wrong. Starbucks survives in Paris or anywhere else for the same reason McDonald’s survives in Paris or anywhere else. They provide a known product at a known quality for a known price. They may not be the best, but they are consistent. Yes, you could get a better coffee somewhere else, but it could also be much worse. Sometimes when travelling you want certainty. Having said that, I have a long history of being positively amazed by the quality of local food and beverage throughout Europe. But sometimes even I felt the need to take the less amazing but “safe” option. If anyone is interested in a contrary example, the best coffee I ever had was in Gruyere, Switzerland. The coffee was served with the cream (real cream, not milk) served in a small chocolate basket floating in the coffee. Incredible. Still, sometimes I buy Starbucks while travelling. I like it, and I know what I am getting. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/22 "2010-01-19T14:52:20Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > I believe that Parisian was wrong. Starbucks survives in Paris or anywhere else for the same reason McDonald’s survives in Paris or anywhere else. They provide a known product at a known quality for a known price. They may not be the best, but they are consistent. Yes, you could get a better coffee somewhere else, but it could also be much worse. Sometimes when travelling you want certainty. In my experience the French always claim that American chains survive in France only because of the American tourists. It is just a cover for some sort of silly national embarassment. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/23 "2010-01-19T16:29:04Z")
One serious coffee shop in my area - whose prices are only a tiny notch above Starbucks - actually pays and trains the barista a full _year_ before they’re allowed to serve a customer. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/24 "2010-01-19T17:03:43Z")
Cappuccinos and lattes are good, though. I don’t so much care that they’re using substandard espresso shots as long as a) I like the end product, and b) I’m not ordering espresso. Personally I much prefer a regular cup of brewed coffee, but I can enjoy a good girl-drink every now and again. And I’m 'merican, dagnubbit, so I want my beverages to be at _least_ 12 ounces. ---
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/25 "2010-01-19T17:14:58Z")
Starbucks is a whole atmosphere that you can’t get in typical Parisian “bars.” I assume you probably have to pay more to stay, as you do anywhere else in Paris, but it’s got the whole comfy armchair, hang around for ages, do your schoolwork with friends thing going on. They have free washrooms (only reason I was in there, I swear!), and if you really want caffeine, the little French espressos aren’t going to cut it. And I might visit that coffee shop, **lindsaybluth** , but honestly, if I had a year to take certification in something, I would get a professional degree or something, not take barista training. Not that it’s not great that they do that, but I can imagine there might be a shortage of people wanting that kind of in-depth training. ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/26 "2010-01-19T17:43:39Z")
Oh, I agree entirely - I’d never spend a year doing that. But, at the same time, you’re not “in school” - you’re being paid the same amount (from my understanding, but not verified with the owner) as you will be once you pull shots. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/27 "2010-01-19T18:06:23Z")
> [@Sonnenstrahl](#): > > Starbucks is a whole atmosphere that you can’t get in typical Parisian “bars.” I assume you probably have to pay more to stay, as you do anywhere else in Paris, but it’s got the whole comfy armchair, hang around for ages, do your schoolwork with friends thing going on. They have free washrooms (only reason I was in there, I swear!), and if you really want caffeine, the little French espressos aren’t going to cut it. OTOH, Starbucks is generally a pretty fast route to caffeination, which can be a good thing - you don’t have to sit down if you don’t want to. If I created a hijack in this thread, I’m sorry. I should have gone with how much I loved the espresso in Italy. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363/28 "2010-01-19T18:40:14Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Oh, I agree entirely - I’d never spend a year doing that. But, at the same time, you’re not “in school” - you’re being paid the same amount (from my understanding, but not verified with the owner) as you will be once you pull shots. This is fascinating to me. I wonder how they get the experience they need in order to be able to serve the customers? I can only assume the trainees make drinks for the highly caffeinated staff! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-most-espresso-chains-make-such-horrible-espresso/525363.md?page=1)