# Why do murders always dig only shallow graves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834 "2016-05-15T11:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/21 "2016-05-15T16:59:43Z")
Rumor has it that some bodies have been disposed of in the steel mills on the south of Lake Michigan. Tossing someone into molten steel would be an effective means of disposing of a body, but presumably an option only open to organized crime and not a spur of the moment killer. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/22 "2016-05-15T17:17:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Tossing someone into molten steel would be an effective means of disposing of a body, but presumably an option only open to organized crime and not a spur of the moment killer. Unless the spur of the moment killer worked at the steel mill. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/23 "2016-05-15T17:39:28Z")
I’ve worked in a steel mill on the south side of lake Michigan. While it is true that tossing a body into the BOF (blast oxygen furnace) probably wouldn’t leave much of a trace, I would think that all of the workers in the BOF would probably notice if some outsider just happened to come stumbling in carrying a corpse. Molten steel is generally carried around the plant in large ladles (each ladle in the plant I worked in carried a bit over half a million pounds of steel). These ladles are carried around by cranes and generally aren’t in a place where you can easily toss something into the top of them. Steel is also poured into “pigs” (tank-like rail cars that are lined with ceramic) and carried directly over to the auto manufacturers (it’s still molten when it arrives). I can’t think of anywhere along the line where someone could easily toss a body into the steel. Steel making isn’t an unattended process. Workers in the BOF add materials into the steel mix, take samples for quality control, and scoop the useless slag out of the steel. Every place where the ladles are used and poured is monitored. The ladles contain slag, and not all of it is removed in the BOF. Let the ladles pour too long and you end up with slag in your production steel, which ruins it. In one of the plants I worked in, a ladle handle broke (not while I was there - I found out about it afterwards), dumping a few hundred thousand pounds of molten steel onto a worker who happened to be under it at the time. The only good thing about it was that the poor guy probably never knew what hit him. Molten steel will definitely get rid of a body. That said, I only know of one case where it supposedly actually happened, and it wasn’t done by an outsider who came into the plant and dumped a body. It was someone who murdered a co-worker by shoving him into the steel. There was a temperature dip recorded by the control system, which was all the evidence that was left afterwards. Mostly, I think this is going to be along the lines of the cement shoes myth. Sure it may happen on really rare occasions, but generally no, it doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/24 "2016-05-15T17:41:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Do you _really_ want to spend a lot of time doing something very conspicuous in the middle of nowhere ? Any backpacker, lost kid, trekking couple or wilderness warden and the jig is up. If you dig the grave at night, the light might be seen from miles away whereas if you dig at night in pitch darkness you’ll get eaten by a grue. Actually even “middle of nowhere” is not far from where human habitation is, of its reachable by using vehicles like automobiles and boats. It means that roads aor shipping routes are relatively nearby and chances are someone will stumble upon the evidence sooner rather than later. This is why so many small planes are never found, because they are actually crashing in areas far from such infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/25 "2016-05-15T17:53:54Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I’ve worked in a steel mill on the south side of lake Michigan. While it is true that tossing a body into the BOF (blast oxygen furnace) probably wouldn’t leave much of a trace, I would think that all of the workers in the BOF would probably notice if some outsider just happened to come stumbling in carrying a corpse. > > Molten steel is generally carried around the plant in large ladles (each ladle in the plant I worked in carried a bit over half a million pounds of steel). These ladles are carried around by cranes and generally aren’t in a place where you can easily toss something into the top of them. Steel is also poured into “pigs” (tank-like rail cars that are lined with ceramic) and carried directly over to the auto manufacturers (it’s still molten when it arrives). I can’t think of anywhere along the line where someone could easily toss a body into the steel. Yep. Hence why I said “rumor”. I also heard a second-hand story about a worker doing maintenance on a pig who passed out inside it (I’m not entirely clear on what he was doing - something to do with the pig’s lining?) and had molten steel poured over him. Again, if that did happen there wouldn’t be a body left behind. So _maybe_ someone could put a body inside an empty pig and hope it isn’t noticed, but as noted there’s actually quite a few people in a steel mill and somebody certainly might notice. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/26 "2016-05-15T17:59:24Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Maybe some do dig deeper, but you don’t hear about them because they don’t get caught. This. Two or more girls disappeared in my area, one in my town, back in the 1970s, all thought to be the work of one predator. One was found by accidental excavation on a new home site. The others are probably just as deep… somewhere in the endless forest here. A premeditated killer would go find natural deep pits, such as from a major rotted stump or the like, and use it a starting point. Or just take the time to dig a deep hole in advance. A crime of passion or accident is going to make most killer panic and try to save time by digging only a foot or two. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/27 "2016-05-15T18:10:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > (I’m not entirely clear on what he was doing - something to do with the pig’s lining?) Probably removing some slag that was stuck to the wall of the pig. They go in with blow torches and cut it out. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/28 "2016-05-15T19:16:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I also heard a second-hand story about a worker doing maintenance on a pig who passed out inside it (I’m not entirely clear on what he was doing - something to do with the pig’s lining?) and had molten steel poured over him. Again, if that did happen there wouldn’t be a body left behind. So _maybe_ someone could put a body inside an empty pig and hope it isn’t noticed, but as noted there’s actually quite a few people in a steel mill and somebody certainly might notice. Wouldn’t that splatter terribly? It doesn’t usually take much water in your molten metal to cause a serious accident, and a human body is full of the stuff. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/29 "2016-05-15T19:49:51Z")
Time is a major factor. The longer you take to dig a grave, the greater the likelihood that someone will come along and see you. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/30 "2016-05-15T20:02:27Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It doesn’t sound as cool: “Three days of desperate searching for the 56-year-old came to a tragic end on Saturday afternoon when searchers found a perfectly normal depth grave …” Calling it a “shallow grave” adds a cherry on top of the horrific element of the story. It’s as if the news reporter is saying “Not only did this fiend murder his victim, he didn’t even have the decency to give the victim a proper burial.” :dubious: The rule of thumb is that six feet deep is enough to prevent the body being dug up and eaten by scavengers. We like to think that our dearly departed are “resting in peace” inside their satin-lined mahogany coffins in the cemetery and it would break our hearts to see them picked apart by vultures. But it’s perfectly fine for their bodies to be digested by bacteria and worms. Apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/31 "2016-05-15T20:48:38Z")
A friend of mine who lives outside of town in a rural woodsy area has had 2 murdered corpses buried near his property, both in – you guessed it – shallow graves. And those are just the ones they’ve found! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/32 "2016-05-15T20:53:46Z")
You know, the ocean makes a wonderful disposal site. No need to dig, no need to clean up afterwards. I totally recommend the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/33 "2016-05-15T21:08:33Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Between this and the evidence of [unreliability of cement overshoes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19307683&postcount=35), it’s truly a PITA to get rid of a dead body w/o industrial grade machinery. That or large quantities of hydrofluoric acid 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/34 "2016-05-15T21:15:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know, the ocean makes a wonderful disposal site. No need to dig, no need to clean up afterwards. I totally recommend the ocean. It needs more preparation, though. You have to have a boat available that can get far enough offshore that dumping a body won’t be seen. And it’s hard to properly weight a body so it or parts of it won’t surface when it bloats. And you have to make sure that fishermen don’t trawl there. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/35 "2016-05-15T21:23:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That or large quantities of hydrofluoric acid 😃 Only on television. The cartels use [lye](http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/09/world/fg-missing9), cheap, available, and effective. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/36 "2016-05-15T21:35:54Z")
As far as I know regular graves are usually dug [by a small excavator](http://www.bestattungshilfe-riedl.de/assets/images/bagger-friedhof.jpg) - that’s how much work it is even under favourable circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/37 "2016-05-15T21:39:37Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > Wouldn’t that splatter terribly? It doesn’t usually take much water in your molten metal to cause a serious accident, and a human body is full of the stuff. These are what the pigs look like. There’s a small hole at the top that is opened and the molten steel is poured in. If there was a body inside, I seriously doubt that anyone would see the steel splattering around inside the pig. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/38 "2016-05-15T22:03:12Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > There’s a small hole at the top that is opened and the molten steel is poured in. If there was a body inside, I seriously doubt that anyone would see the steel splattering around inside the pig. So how much water does it take to cause a wet charge accident like [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYCXDUt2m8#t=1m10s)? I’ve seen some pretty impressive explosions with just a few teaspoons of water in a few pounds of metal (like the guy who decided to add liquid, water-based soldering flux to a pot of molten lead…), but I’m not sure how it scales. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/39 "2016-05-15T22:57:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Rumor has it that some bodies have been disposed of in the steel mills on the south of Lake Michigan. Tossing someone into molten steel would be an effective means of disposing of a body, but presumably an option only open to organized crime and not a spur of the moment killer. Wouldn’t that compromise the integrity of the steel, especially if the person wore glasses or had a belt buckle or some kind of artificial body parts that wouldn’t melt at those temperatures? There’s a “Forensic Files” episode where some people got caught for doing this, because the temperature took a steep nosedive. It’s also believe that the victim was thrown in alive. :eek: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Commodore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Commodore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commodore)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/40 "2016-05-15T23:13:28Z")
Poring concrete on them big dam walls, I have herd of people who have fell in don’t come back out as the poring concrete can not stop.:eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834.md?page=3)