# Why do murders always dig only shallow graves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834 "2016-05-15T11:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/41 "2016-05-15T23:54:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A premeditated killer would go find natural deep pits, such as from a major rotted stump or the like, and use it a starting point. Or just take the time to dig a deep hole in advance. A crime of passion or accident is going to make most killer panic and try to save time by digging only a foot or two. How about unused/abandoned mine shafts, wells, and deep caves? Then there’s Jeffery Dahmer who, apparently, ate some of the evidence although I’m not sure that was entirely a way to hide it as part of whatever sick defect he possessed. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/42 "2016-05-16T00:11:48Z")
Dahmer is an illustrative example of something, but not of stealthy body disposal. His neighbors all complained of the horrible smell BEFORE he was caught–including the guy who occasionally had a beer with him. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/43 "2016-05-16T00:22:24Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > Wouldn’t that splatter terribly? It doesn’t usually take much water in your molten metal to cause a serious accident, and a human body is full of the stuff. Yep, but as noted the opening in a pig isn’t very big and would limit any “splashing” that occurred (actually, it’s more like a steam explosion from what I’ve been told). > [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know, the ocean makes a wonderful disposal site. No need to dig, no need to clean up afterwards. I totally recommend the ocean. Hey, Dexter Morgan! I was wondering how you’ve been doing since leaving Miami! Sorry about your sister, though… Actually, _Dexter_ did bring up the drawbacks of that - in the series Dexter gets the title “Bay Harbor Butcher” after some divers discover his disposal site. After that, he switches to the Gulf Stream but in that case we’re talking about a very much OCD killer being very methodical. Who also owns a boat. And doesn’t seem to require sleep. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Wouldn’t that compromise the integrity of the steel, especially if the person wore glasses or had a belt buckle or some kind of artificial body parts that wouldn’t melt at those temperatures? > > There’s a “Forensic Files” episode where some people got caught for doing this, because the temperature took a steep nosedive. It’s also believe that the victim was thrown in alive. :eek: :mad: Not a heck of a lot that _doesn’t_ either melt or burn in molten steel… But yeah, apparently it does cause a temperature drop. Modern steels often have some fairly precise chemistry and maybe a human body can throw those off, too. Heiress Helen Brach was allegedly killed in the 1970’s on orders from organized crime and her body disposed of in an Indiana steel furnace. That should give you enough to google more details if you’re interested. Apparently there is evidence, but I’m not sure it would constitute legal proof, that that actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/44 "2016-05-16T00:23:39Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Dahmer is an illustrative example of something, but not of stealthy body disposal. His neighbors all complained of the horrible smell BEFORE he was caught–including the guy who occasionally had a beer with him. Obviously, he either needed to eat faster, get a bigger freezer, or throw out rotten meat quicker. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/45 "2016-05-16T00:34:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Between this and the evidence of [unreliability of cement overshoes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19307683&postcount=35), it’s truly a PITA to get rid of a dead body w/o industrial grade machinery. You might think that, but it’s actually fairly easy. I won’t say anything more. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/46 "2016-05-16T01:07:23Z")
A phaser type 1 on full power ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/47 "2016-05-16T01:25:47Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Actually even “middle of nowhere” is not far from where human habitation is, of its reachable by using vehicles like automobiles and boats. It means that roads aor shipping routes are relatively nearby and chances are someone will stumble upon the evidence sooner rather than later. > > This is why so many small planes are never found, because they are actually crashing in areas far from such infrastructure. Which implies a really good way of getting rid of a body if you have a private pilot’s licence and a buddy, is to fly out over the middle of a forest and drop the body out the door. Of course it’s going to be slightly random, but as long as you live somewhere like Australia or the US where there are massive areas without much infrastructure, and the body lands in an area no hiker etc has any reason to go, the body might never be seen again. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/48 "2016-05-16T01:58:22Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Between this and the evidence of [unreliability of cement overshoes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19307683&postcount=35), it’s truly a PITA to get rid of a dead body w/o industrial grade machinery. Bodies can get pretty buoyant after a few days in the water. [This case](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-09/kathryn-grosvenor-murder-appeal/3879780) for example - a murdered woman was weighted down with 28kg (about 60lbs) of concrete and six days later was found floating on the surface of the lake (in my job at the time I had data on the lake-bed contours, depth, water flow direction and speed which I provided to the AFP so I had a chance to talk to some of the investigating officers). Another factor if you go into remote areas or farmland is that the locals all seem to know what cars their neighbours drive and what ‘normal’ traffic in their areas is (ask my grandmother 😃 ) - if something out of the ordinary happens or police start asking eventually someone will remember an unfamiliar car driving around. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/49 "2016-05-16T03:07:20Z")
Last year one of our mini donkeys died. We had to dig a grave, we dug one about six for deep in Florida sand. It took a couple of hours and it was exhausting. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/50 "2016-05-16T03:13:00Z")
I’m opting for renting a wood chipper if I ever kill someone. None of that nasty time-consuming digging and wood chipping is common enough no one will ever notice. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/51 "2016-05-16T05:28:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s a lot of work digging a grave. Killers only go deep enough to conceal the body. Nicky (Casino) [_voice-over_] A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you’re talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who’s gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all fuckin’ night. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/52 "2016-05-16T10:16:26Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > I’m opting for renting a wood chipper if I ever kill someone. None of that nasty time-consuming digging and wood chipping is common enough no one will ever notice. Just remember to thoroughly clean the “hamburger” out the chipper before you return it. If you don’t, someone might get suspicious and test whatever bits they find in it. As soon as the results come back as “human tissue” you’ve got some serious explaining to do. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/53 "2016-05-16T11:08:40Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Nicky (Casino) [_voice-over_] A lot of holes in the desert, and a lot of problems are buried in those holes. But you gotta do it right. I mean, you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you’re talking about a half-hour to forty-five minutes worth of digging. And who knows who’s gonna come along in that time? Pretty soon, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all fuckin’ night. I read that in Las Vegas, discoveries of human remains on construction sites were common during the boom years when property development on the fringes of the city was very busy. Allegedly, it came to point that some developers found the ensuing disruptions so costly that they occasionally decided to not call for the police. Of course, whenever a murderer is diligent enough to dig a sufficiently deep grave for his victim, nobody ever learns about it. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/54 "2016-05-16T11:38:23Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > Last year one of our mini donkeys died. We had to dig a grave, we dug one about six for deep in Florida sand. It took a couple of hours and it was exhausting. Over the last couple of years we’ve had to bury a cat, chicken, and horse. The cat and the chicken were difficult burials digging into Pennsylvania clay and rock. The horse was easy ($200 for a backhoe, it took the guy just a bit over an hour). ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/55 "2016-05-16T11:40:42Z")
Without the machine to tamp the dirt down, the deeper hole will fall in further… think about it, it settles 10% say, thus the mound above a grave in the cemetery is about 10% of the depth… So if the murderer digs a grave 36 inches down, it will only settle 4 inches. If he digs it down 72 inches down, it settles twice as much, 8 inches, and then soon the grave can be seen as a hole in the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/56 "2016-05-16T13:08:05Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > I’m opting for renting a wood chipper if I ever kill someone. None of that nasty time-consuming digging and wood chipping is common enough no one will ever notice. [Sometimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts) they notice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny2Bad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@Johnny2Bad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny2Bad)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/57 "2016-05-16T13:28:18Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > As I say, criminals are not very bright. If they were more intelligent, they would have a job and not need to lead a life of crime! (Or would be able to resolve their differences with other people in some manner other than murder.) Criminals broadly speaking represent a mirror of the society they are within; in other words there about the same percentage of dumb criminals as there are dumb people in a given area. However there is a significant fraction of criminals who are well above average intelligence, and to a higher percentage than the general population. They become criminals because they know they are bright yet society does not grant them the superior position they feel they deserve, which causes resentment and grandiose schemes to enrich themselves. Generally they are also either unlucky, debilitatingly poor (and thus either are less able to take advantage of higher education opportunities, or simply live somewhere where good job opportunities are scarce) or just plain lazy, but those are dangerous combinations with IQ’s of 120 and higher. It’s also reasonably common that they also feel they won’t get caught. Some simply choose a “life of crime” because they feel they can do well at it. Then they get caught. It does not necessarily follow that being smarter than those pursuing you means you always win. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/58 "2016-05-16T15:18:44Z")
Criminals are usually dumb fucks. Sure they might have some street smarts, but the " gentleman thief" or “criminal mastermind” is mostly fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/59 "2016-05-16T15:25:04Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Maybe some do dig deeper, but you don’t hear about them because they don’t get caught. Exactly. Think Jimmy Hoffa. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/60 "2016-05-16T15:45:34Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > A phaser type 1 on full power No way. A type 1 phaser can’t even injure a horta. To vaporize a human body, better bring a type 2 set to level 16. But even that won’t destroy all the DNA residue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834.md?page=4)