# Why do murders always dig only shallow graves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834 "2016-05-15T11:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/81 "2016-05-19T15:50:50Z")
The skeletal remains of Chandra Levy, the intern of Congressman Gary Condit whose disappearance created suspicion that he had killed her because they were having an affair, were found in Rock Creek Park in the middle of Washington D.C. more than a year after she disappeared despite searches of the park. She hadn’t even been buried; she may have been left bound but alive and died of exposure. The remains were within 100 yards of a road but on a steep slope. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/82 "2016-05-19T17:55:17Z")
Richard Kuklinski, a hitman, used to take bodies to a cave in upstate PA where they were supposedly devoured by rats, bones and all. Sometimes while the people were still alive if he was contracted to “make them suffer.” However, there are doubts to the veracity of his stories. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/83 "2016-05-19T20:04:46Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > Richard Kuklinski, a hitman, used to take bodies to a cave in upstate PA where they were supposedly devoured by rats, bones and all. Sometimes while the people were still alive if he was contracted to “make them suffer.” > > However, there are doubts to the veracity of his stories. The Iceman? He supposedly filmed the guys being eaten by rats for his employer. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/84 "2016-05-19T20:28:31Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > In post 48 above by **Battlepope** , the link he provides mentions that the deceased had been stabbed 60 times. Even a frenzied killing is unlikely to involve that many wounds. It would not be at all surprising if the stab wounds were intended to prevent the body being found. But found it was. What would you have to do to keep the body from floating up? I thought the thing was that bacteria in the gut continued to work after death, and the innards decomposed and produced gases. If I made an X-shaped cut on the abdomen, would that release enough of the gas to keep the body down? Regards, Shodan PS - don’t need answer fast. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/85 "2016-05-19T22:17:11Z")
The obvious answer is to dig a shallow grave at the bottom of the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/86 "2016-05-20T00:46:02Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > The obvious answer is to dig a shallow grave at the bottom of the ocean. If you have access to the ocean, concrete blocks and wire. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/87 "2016-05-20T01:45:42Z")
> [@Sinaptics](#): > > The obvious answer is to dig a shallow grave at the bottom of the ocean. It’s a generally unknown fact that this is the major cause of death among Marines, when they try to dig the grave for their comrades’ burial at sea. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/88 "2016-05-20T02:08:39Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > It’s a generally unknown fact that this is the major cause of death among Marines, when they try to dig the grave for their comrades’ burial at sea. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/89 "2016-05-20T07:01:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What would you have to do to keep the body from floating up? > > I thought the thing was that bacteria in the gut continued to work after death, and the innards decomposed and produced gases. If I made an X-shaped cut on the abdomen, would that release enough of the gas to keep the body down? > > Regards, > Shodan > > PS - don’t need answer fast. I imagine this is a matter of empirical research, and I don’t know if it has ever been done, or could ethically be done. Remember that if you dismember the body as with a big slash, it may not stay coherently in one piece after that, allowing for fragments to rise to the surface or wash ashore independently. The corner flaps of your big X might rot off, creating more rather than less risk. But I don’t know that without someone doing the science. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/90 "2016-05-20T07:22:59Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > Not being able to know whether you have been spotted is a significant problem, particularly in a rural area where everyone knows everyone else’s cars and has a high rate of recognition of the presence of a stranger. And these days if somebody thinks your behavior is noteworthy, that person is probably carrying a camera. Earlier this year there was a fire on the property next door, and a man left the scene by a suspicious route. When we reported this to the police, we had a series of 4K photographs of him and an associate as reference. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/91 "2016-05-20T07:23:50Z")
Don’t know if any of the Body Farms have a large enough body of water on hand to test theories about water burials, bloat, float, and the rest, but if they did that would be the place such research would be done. In the US such research using a donated corpse is considered ethical. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/92 "2016-05-20T12:16:27Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > I imagine this is a matter of empirical research, and I don’t know if it has ever been done, or could ethically be done. Remember that if you dismember the body as with a big slash, it may not stay coherently in one piece after that, allowing for fragments to rise to the surface or wash ashore independently. The corner flaps of your big X might rot off, creating more rather than less risk. But I don’t know that without someone doing the science. That’s a good point about the bits and pieces coming apart as the body decays. How about if I have a nylon mesh bag big enough to hold a corpse (or maybe pieces of a corpse I have dismembered)? I cut up the body, make sure the torso is cut open enough to let the gases of decomposition escape, and weight the bag with concrete blocks using chain to attach them so they don’t wear by being rubbed against rocks by the tide or currents. That would in theory not float to the surface, and the nylon mesh would keep the bones and body parts from coming loose and drifting ashore separately. As the body decomposes, it turns to slime and floats away and fish eat it. Eventually you have a bag full of bones. How long do bones last underwater? I know skeletons last a long time in graves, but that is in a theoretically water-tight coffin. Maybe I am giving this a little too much thought. And I will end up on the terrorist watch list from my suspicious postings. Oh well - if someone close to me disappears soon, I will be able to find out if the SDMB is blocked from prison. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/93 "2016-05-20T14:21:01Z")
Just what the careful [serial killer](http://www.safetybasics.com/mortuary-ferno-funeral-home-equipment-s/30.htmhttp://www.safetybasics.com/mortuary-ferno-funeral-home-equipment-s/30.htm) needs. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/94 "2016-05-20T14:57:57Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’s still pretty darn fast. How long is the statute of limitation on murder one in Quebec ? Crime is a federal matter in Canada, so it’s the same from coast to coast to coast. And we don’t have a statute of limitations for anything that will send you to prison. My key point tho’ is that these bodies were found right beside a highway in the suburbs and still weren’t found for a year. They were not buried, just lying in the woods. It’s not possible to get any lazier about hiding a body, and it was still more than a year before it was found. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/95 "2016-05-20T15:48:58Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] How about if I have a nylon mesh bag big enough to hold a corpse (or maybe pieces of a corpse I have dismembered)? [/quote] Well, most people don’t keep nylon mesh bags around the house, so you’d have to plan ahead. Similarly, cutting up the body is a time-waster and kinda messy unless you use your bathtub, and then you’ve got to worry about stuff trapped in the piping and maybe causing blockages (plumbers really hate this). Maybe you should consider high explosives instead for your, uh, project. Killers commonly seem to have the delusion that disposing of corpses/evidence in water makes them disappear. _Forensic Files_ is full of examples where people tossed bags of evidence or even bodies off bridges, not realizing they’d float and/or get caught on tree branches/detritus and be exposed for authorities to find. Thankfully, murderers are mostly stoopit. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/96 "2016-05-20T16:54:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Maybe you should consider high explosives instead for your, uh, project. That’s a little too high-profile for my tastes. So I will need [ul][li]A nylon mesh bag, big enough for a dismembered corpse.[/li][li]Five or six concrete blocks.[/li][li]10-20’ of chain. [/li][li]Hacksaw[/li][li]2 or 3 large, sharp knives - I better get new ones; if I use the good knives from the kitchen my wife will never let me hear the end of it[/li][li]Plastic tarp[/li][li]5 gallon bucket[/li][li]Overalls[/li][li]Work gloves[/li][li]Bleach[/li][li]Lots of plastic garbage bags[/li][li]A van or something to transport[/li][li]Access to a deep river, or, better, a deep lake[/ul]So then I[/li][ul][li]Kill somebody[/li][li]Wrap them up in plastic bags so they don’t get fluids all over[/li][li]Put them into the van[/li][li]Drive them to wherever I am going to chop them up. Probably I can use my garage - it’s closed off so I can work in privacy. (Note to self: better clean out one stall - there is a bunch of crap we will never use left over from the garage sale)[/li][li]Drag them out of the trunk[/li][li]Put on the overalls, gloves, and lay out the tarp[/li][li]Hang them up and drain the blood into a bucket. First problem - what am I going to do with the blood? I will never get the toilet clean enough if I flush it down there. I can’t pour it out on the ground, and it would be darned noticeable if I pour it into the lake where I ditch the body. Hmm… Have to think about this.[/li][li]Dismember the corpse. This is going to be a dickens of a job. I’ve deboned turkeys and chickens, and this is a couple of orders of magnitude bigger. I wonder if just cutting off the head, arms, and legs will be enough? Those hip joints are going to be tough - maybe a chainsaw would be better? Those things are expensive, and I would have to dispose of it later. This is starting to run into money.[/li][li]Make sure I cut the belly open enough to let the gas escape.[/li][li]Bundle everything up, and drive to the lake or river unobserved. [/li][li]Throw the body into the water. Second problem - I want it deep enough to be unseen from the surface. How do I drag the corpse with the concrete blocks attached deep enough into the water without drowning myself? Tossing it off a bridge means it will be subject to currents, and I want it to stay submerged. Hmmm… also have to think about this.[/li][li]Go back home, burn my clothes, wash everything with bleach, dispose of the hacksaw and knives. Next problem - what do I do with the tarp? I’ve seen _CSI_ - I am not going to be able to clean up every fleck, and I can’t burn it. Maybe just wash it real well with bleach, and cut it up into pieces and dispose of it in the trash over several days.[/ul][/li]Now all I need to do is figure out how to make it look like an accident. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/97 "2016-05-20T18:40:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Now all I need to do is figure out how to make it look like an accident. > > Regards, > Shodan Blame Obama Care. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/98 "2016-05-20T21:03:05Z")
Jeez. Easier to just dump the body in a ditch. ---
**Author:** ![bomberswarm2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c37758/32.png) [@bomberswarm2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bomberswarm2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/99 "2016-05-21T00:53:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > [Sometimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Helle_Crafts) they notice. That guy was an idiot though. Using a wood-chipper in the middle of a snowstorm at midnighjt? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834/100 "2016-05-21T01:57:56Z")
> [@bomberswarm2](#): > > That guy was an idiot though. Using a wood-chipper in the middle of a snowstorm at midnighjt? Yes. I drive…er, the miscreant should drive to another city and pay cash to rent the wood chipper. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-murders-always-dig-only-shallow-graves/754834.md?page=4)