# Why do Non-Americans care about our gun laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417 "2015-12-14T14:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/21 "2015-12-14T20:48:53Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yup, you are right. Ok, let me rephrase…you are more likely to die from alcohol in the UK than be murdered by a gun in the US. But you’re [about twice as likely](http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm) to die from alcohol-related issues in the US too, so if you take “alcohol-related deaths” and other societal things like traffic accidents as a very broad baseline shared by other countries, there are still gun-related deaths in the US shining out as a macabre ‘novelty’. My take on it is that as well as a bit of begrudgery from non-American countries, on the infrequent occasions that they’re mentioned in the media, the US has a propensity to judge other countries quite vocally. I’m not saying that judgement is more or less than in other countries, but it is broadcast quite a bit further because we all lap up your media. The same media simultaneously broadcasts your problems. Thus it is often seen as a form of hypocrisy\*: “remove the mote in thine eye” etc. \*Even on these boards I’ve observed people trying to insist that Europe, for example, would be better off with US gun laws and US-style health legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/22 "2015-12-14T20:48:58Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yup, you are right. Ok, let me rephrase…you are more likely to die from alcohol in the UK than be murdered by a gun in the US. It’s still not comparing like with like though, is it? Cirrhosis is pretty self-inflicted after all. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/23 "2015-12-14T20:55:19Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > It’s still not comparing like with like though, is it? Cirrhosis is pretty self-inflicted after all. My point was simply that people are often afraid of what they don’t understand or aren’t used to while not being afraid of what they THINK they understand or are used to. In the US you are more likely to die from an American diet than be murdered by a gun (as well as numerous other things), yet guns are what grab the headlines. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/24 "2015-12-14T20:59:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > My point was simply that people are often afraid of what they don’t understand or aren’t used to while not being afraid of what they THINK they understand or are used to. In the US you are more likely to die from an American diet than be murdered by a gun (as well as numerous other things), yet guns are what grab the headlines. Well no one was ever fearful traveling to/through the UK due to random Stout/Bitter violence; same goes with southern US style drive-by/school ‘ribbings’. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/25 "2015-12-14T21:03:56Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Well no one was ever fearful traveling to/through the UK due to random Stout/Bitter violence; same goes with southern US style drive-by/school ‘ribbings’. If they are worried about random gun violence in the US then they are worried about the wrong thing, since just driving in the US is more dangerous, statistically. 😛 And those pork ribs will kill you, man…it’s a group 1 carcinogen!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/26 "2015-12-14T21:10:40Z")
> [@XT](#): > > My point was simply that people are often afraid of what they don’t understand or aren’t used to while not being afraid of what they THINK they understand or are used to. Oh absolutely. People are generally really bad at assessing risk. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/27 "2015-12-14T21:16:33Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Oh absolutely. People are generally really bad at assessing risk. Therefore, let’s not do anything at all about guns. Right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/28 "2015-12-14T21:23:41Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Oh absolutely. People are generally really bad at assessing risk. > [@Icarus](#): > > Therefore, let’s not do anything at all about guns. Right? But they are really good at building straw men!! ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/29 "2015-12-14T21:25:26Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Therefore, let’s not do anything at all about guns. Right? Well, comment is free, but its not really our place to dictate US gun laws, no? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/30 "2015-12-14T21:27:08Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Therefore, let’s not do anything at all about guns. Right? From which dank orifice did you pull that from? I’m not American, and I don’t really care one way or another about their gun laws, fyi. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/31 "2015-12-14T21:28:33Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I hear what you guys are saying, but one thing that’s always struck me is how my friends in the UK are so horrified by our gun death rate per 100k (10 per 100k) while being so unconcerned by their own for alcohol ([14 deaths per 100k](http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health4/alcohol-related-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom/2013/stb---alcohol-related-deaths-in-the-united-kingdom--registered-in-2013.html)). I guess it’s all what you are used to…in addition, it’s what you are bombarded with on the news and on message boards that sticks out as the the real threat, and people are just seriously bad at risk analysis. You are more likely to be killed in the UK in a drunk driving accident than you are to be murdered in the US by a gun based on probability…in fact, in our country of over 300 million people, we actually only have 4000 more deaths from gun murders a year than deaths from drunk drivers in the UK (8,416 drunk driver deaths in the UK verse 12,575 gun murders total in the US for the same year)…and this in a country of 64 million verse 318 million. The point is that deaths from alcohol and on the roads are at least in the same order of magnitude for the two countries. Whereas the number of firearms homicides in the USA is averaging up around 10,000 yes? In the UK it is less than 50. (the equivalent of 300 in a country the size of the USA) So for the alcohol related deaths in the UK to be as much an aberration as gun deaths in the USA, they’d have to be 30 times greater than the USA rate. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/32 "2015-12-14T21:37:50Z")
> [@XT](#): > > My point was simply that people are often afraid of what they don’t understand or aren’t used to while not being afraid of what they THINK they understand or are used to. In the US you are more likely to die from an American diet than be murdered by a gun (as well as numerous other things), yet guns are what grab the headlines. This line of argument only makes sense if the people of the UK do indeed ignore the threat of drunk driving and alcohol abuse. Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/33 "2015-12-14T21:39:35Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > From which dank orifice did you pull that from? > > I’m not American, and I don’t really care one way or another about their gun laws, fyi. It was not directed at you. However, you fell into XT’s rhetorical trap. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/34 "2015-12-14T21:42:02Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yup, you are right. Ok, let me rephrase…you are more likely to die from alcohol in the UK than be murdered by a gun in the US. Alcohol is a huge killer. Ever heard of cirrhosis of the liver? I’m astounded gun murders are in the same ballpark as alcohol deaths in a civilized country, and even more astounded anyone would find the stat you quote surprising. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/35 "2015-12-14T21:42:31Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Therefore, let’s not do anything at all about guns. Right? Uh…no? Why would one thing lead to the other?? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/36 "2015-12-14T21:45:30Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > Why do Non-Americans (not residing in the US) care about our gun laws? I doubt that it really affects them. Well firstly there is simple humanity and then there’s reciprocity. The US gun lobby seem to be very concerned about Australian gun laws. Indeed the NRA and US corporations such as Winchester and Olin contribute funds to pro-gun political parties here on the “thin edge of the wedge principle”. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/37 "2015-12-14T21:46:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > This line of argument only makes sense if the people of the UK do indeed ignore the threat of drunk driving and alcohol abuse. Is that what you’re saying? They ignore it in the same way that Americans ignore gun violence, which is to say that some completely ignore it or make excuses for it, some are really fired up about it and wish to change, and most foll somewhere between those extremes and simply accept them as the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/38 "2015-12-14T21:50:21Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The point is that deaths from alcohol and on the roads are at least in the same order of magnitude for the two countries. > > Whereas the number of firearms homicides in the USA is averaging up around 10,000 yes? In the UK it is less than 50. (the equivalent of 300 in a country the size of the USA) > > So for the alcohol related deaths in the UK to be as much an aberration as gun deaths in the USA, they’d have to be 30 times greater than the USA rate. Actually, I think that US deaths on the road are an order of magnitude more, though I haven’t looked it up lately. I’m not sure what our death by alcohol is…probably less than the 14 per 100k of the UK, but most likely not that much less. Yes, US deaths due to firearms are orders of magnitude higher than the UK…but then, the US actually has guns while the UK have very few, so in order to make your comparison work (which wasn’t MY point, btw) you’d have to look at the UK deaths by alcohol verse a country with either very strict or no alcohol at all and do a comparison there, since the US and UK have very similar alcohol laws while vastly different gun laws (which is why on the one had we have similar death rates for alcohol while on the other very different ones for guns). A more interesting comparison would be why does the US have such a high gun murder rate compared to Canada, since we both have more widely available guns, even though the Canadians have stricter gun control than the US…but not stricter to account for the huge difference in murder rate for guns. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/39 "2015-12-14T21:53:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They ignore it in the same way that Americans ignore gun violence, which is to say that some completely ignore it or make excuses for it, some are really fired up about it and wish to change, and most foll somewhere between those extremes and simply accept them as the status quo. No, they have increase awareness programs, make penalties for over serving and make losing your driver’s license easier. I understand America’s hands are tied because gun ownership is in your Constitution, but your’s is a faulty observation. The real thing is that its human instinct to notice difference more than sameness. Similar alcohol deaths is not so interesting, vastly different gun deaths is. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417/40 "2015-12-14T21:59:39Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No, they have increase awareness programs, make penalties for over serving and make losing your driver’s license easier. I understand America’s hands are tied because gun ownership is in your Constitution, but your’s is a faulty observation. The real thing is that its human instinct to notice difference more than sameness. Similar alcohol deaths is not so interesting, vastly different gun deaths is. I’m not sure how my observation is faulty, since essentially I’m saying the same thing wrt people perceptions, even though I couched it differently. Our hands aren’t tied because of the Constitution so much as the fact that, strange as it is for non-Americans to fathom, the majority of our citizens are ok with the gun violence and deaths as the price for keeping a right we’ve enjoyed for a century and a half. You are right though…people are more afraid by differences than what they perceive as sameness, and people in other countries are fascinated and baffled by this US obsession with guns, and the price we pay for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-non-americans-care-about-our-gun-laws/740417.md?page=3)