# Why do Northern Californians get upset about "the 405"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 28, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308 "2017-07-28T05:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/61 "2017-07-29T12:42:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here in the Valley, we dont say “The City” about LA. I wonder if that’s because it’s such a sprawl that referring to it as “The City” doesn’t tell you much about where you are talking about. SF, for example, is pretty compact. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/62 "2017-07-29T13:59:34Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > One person did it for decades, and is still doing it in reruns. Jack Webb. “This is The City. Los Angeles, California. I work here. I carry a badge.” No, I think he said, ‘This is the city, Los Angeles, California.’ That is, he was calling the city Lost Angeles; not Los Angeles, ‘The City’. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/63 "2017-07-29T16:57:33Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > [SoCalization](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SoCalization) > > I generally use the SiriusXM traffic channel before I get underway, and I can always tell when they hire someone from out of town to do the Detroit traffic report. If you call I-94 “The 94” we know you ain’t from 'round these parts. > > and don’t get me started on titling a TV show _Detroit 1-8-7._ I admit that “Detroit 750.316” doesn’t really roll off the tongue, but they could have come up with a better title. A little off-topic, but there’s something in the linked article that bugs me a little, and it’s the reference to Californication, credited to Red Hot Chili Peppers. The concept was ripped off from The J. Geils Band’s song [Californicatin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbUqHHqGELk)’ released 15 years prior in 1984. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/64 "2017-07-29T17:41:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I wonder if that’s because it’s such a sprawl that referring to it as “The City” doesn’t tell you much about where you are talking about. SF, for example, is pretty compact. There really isn’t anywhere else in California that is referred to as The City but SF is only called when one is in the Bay Area for the most part. NYC is also called the The City (or maybe just Manhattan) for people who live in that area. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/65 "2017-07-29T18:18:57Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > There really isn’t anywhere else in California that is referred to as The City but SF is only called when one is in the Bay Area for the most part. NYC is also called the The City (or maybe just Manhattan) for people who live in that area. Well, yeah, you only say “The City” when you’re in the area, other wise you could be talking about Chicago or Miami. But people don’t say “The City” about San Diego either? They don’t say it about San Jose because 1) too close to SF and 2) it’s sprawled all over the place sort of like LA and 3) the downtown area, such as it is, is not much. Isn’t San Jose the city where there is no there there? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/66 "2017-07-29T18:47:42Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > You get stuck with Fresno, we get stuck with Bakersfield. Bakersfield, Gateway to Fresno! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/67 "2017-07-29T19:21:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Speaking of “The Nimitz” I just noticed on Google Maps that I-80 is now labeled “Dwight D. Eisenhower Highway.” Anybody call it “The Ike”? 😛 > > Nitpick: Yes, San Jose turned a million and is #10 on the List of Largest U.S. Cities. But SF isn’t far behind — it’s #13 on the same list. (It was #8 in 1890.) Never heard that. Well, more population and also - 177.51 sq mi vs 46.89 sq mi. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/68 "2017-07-29T19:24:47Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > There really isn’t anywhere else in California that is referred to as The City but SF is only called when one is in the Bay Area for the most part… Not the whole Bay area. Just more or less SF. San Joseians never call SF “The City”. You can be banned for life if you do. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/69 "2017-07-29T19:40:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, yeah, you only say “The City” when you’re in the area, other wise you could be talking about Chicago or Miami. But people don’t say “The City” about San Diego either? They don’t say it about San Jose because 1) too close to SF and 2) it’s sprawled all over the place sort of like LA and 3) the downtown area, such as it is, is not much. Isn’t San Jose the city where there is no there there? Not about San Diego. I lived there for eight years. Of course when I was there in the 80s, downtown was a dangerous, gritty place. It’s been revitalized now and things may have changed. People who live in Los Angeles proper might describe themselves as living in The City as opposed to The Valley but that’s a different usage. More likely you would describe the neighborhood. I grew up in West L.A., more specifically Mar Vista. Downtown L.A. is getting a new life since Staples Center went in so that may change in the coming decades. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/70 "2017-07-29T19:46:43Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Native Southern Californian, born in Lakewood (L.A. County), lived 11 years in San Diego, 11 years in the Antelope Valley (Northern L.A. County), and 17 years in the City of L.A. I don’t recall ever hearing anyone referring to _any_ city as ‘The City’. Of course not – The City is New York. Although living up here, sometimes “The City” means Boston. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/71 "2017-07-29T22:12:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > . . . But people don’t say “The City” about San Diego either? . . . > [@hajario](#): > > Not about San Diego. I lived there for eight years. Of course when I was there in the 80s, downtown was a dangerous, gritty place. It’s been revitalized now and things may have changed. . . . Ah, the days when Horton Plaza was a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Much nicer these days. But, yeah, we don’t say “The city.” We say “San Diego.” “I’m heading into San Diego for a new car battery.” If you’re in San Diego, you generally use the neighborhood’s name. “I know a guy in Normal Heights who’ll sell me a car battery.” And the beach cities are known by their initials. PB for Pacific Beach, OB for Ocean Beach. Remember the OB Ranger? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/72 "2017-07-30T01:35:04Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Ah, the days when Horton Plaza was a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Much nicer these days. > > But, yeah, we don’t say “The city.” We say “San Diego.” “I’m heading into San Diego for a new car battery.” > > If you’re in San Diego, you generally use the neighborhood’s name. “I know a guy in Normal Heights who’ll sell me a car battery.” > > And the beach cities are known by their initials. PB for Pacific Beach, OB for Ocean Beach. Remember the OB Ranger? I lived in MB, PB and Windansea. Great times. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/73 "2017-07-30T03:45:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ok, sure, good point. But do they get angry and upset about it? I’ve never heard anyone get mad about it. It’s just a minor regional or dialectical difference that gets noticed by both groups of people. FTR, wouldn’t Northern Californians typically say I-880, rather than just 880? There is a San Francisco usage that seems unique to me. They always say “_the_ Mission”, “_the_ Haight”, “_the_ Sunset”, etc., whereas we don’t say “the Westwood” or “the Pico/Union” or “the Hancock”. Etymologically speaking, I’d guess that they started off saying those names with the word “District” at the end, and then it makes a little more sense. The one exception I can think of, in the case of SF, is that it’s just North Beach, and not _the_ North Beach. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/74 "2017-07-30T03:59:52Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I’ve never heard anyone get mad about it. It’s just a minor regional or dialectical difference that gets noticed by both groups of people. > > FTR, wouldn’t Northern Californians typically say I-880, rather than just 880? No, we usually don’t put “I” in front of interstate names. It’s just 280, 680, 580, etc. And some of us still don’t say 880, preferring 17, which it was when I first moved here (and still is south of 280). > [@](#): > > There is a San Francisco usage that seems unique to me. They always say “_the_ Mission”, “_the_ Haight”, “_the_ Sunset”, etc., whereas we don’t say “the Westwood” or “the Pico/Union” or “the Hancock”. Etymologically speaking, I’d guess that they started off saying those names with the word “District” at the end, and then it makes a little more sense. Probably. You still hear “District” tacked onto the end sometimes. Especially for The Mission [District]. > [@](#): > > The one exception I can think of, in the case of SF, is that it’s just North Beach, and not _the_ North Beach. Cow Hollow, Nob Hill and Noe Valley also come to mind. Here’s a complete [list of SF Districts.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighborhoods_in_San_Francisco#Cow_Hollow) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/75 "2017-07-30T04:35:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … And some of us still don’t say 880, preferring 17, which it was when I first moved here (and still is south of 280). You’re a newcomer. When I moved to Bay Area, “Highway 17” (for much of its run in S.C. County) was Bascom Avenue! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/76 "2017-07-30T04:46:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … When I moved to Bay Area, “Highway 17” (for much of its run in S.C. County) was Bascom Avenue! My memory jogged, I see I made a similar comment 5½ years ago … in a [thread with similar topic to the present one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14766937). > [@Origin of "The" freeway in Southern California.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/origin-of-the-freeway-in-southern-california/612543/33): > > … “Highway 17” (or, later, “Old Highway 17”) south of Valley Fair referred to what is now called “South Bascom” or “Los Gatos Blvd.” 🆒 > > (PS: I’d been living in “Silicon Valley” for 19 years before ever hearing it called “Silicon Valley.” :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/77 "2017-07-30T13:56:53Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Of course not – The City is New York. > > Although living up here, sometimes “The City” means Boston. :eek: To who? I live 4 hours closer to Boston than NYC and I’ve still only heard NYC being called “The City.” However, even then though it only happens in the context of already speaking of New York, such as “Oh, are you going upstate or to the city?” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/78 "2017-07-30T14:31:27Z")
“They’ve assigned me a city. My mission? To free it from the ravages of evil and super-villainy, so its citizens may sleep easy, secure in the knowledge that they are protected. The city. My… the city. It cries to me of its need.” -The Tick ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/79 "2017-07-30T15:40:04Z")
Maybe they’re lashing out, because they know they’re really in Central California. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308/80 "2017-07-31T18:30:47Z")
In some areas of the country references to “the X” or just “X” would be insanely confusing. Here in GA there are 3 major interstate highways - I-20, I-75 and I-85. There are also 3 major state highways numbered 20, 75 and 85. Highway 20 crosses each of the interstate highways and one of the major state highways. Saying take 20 west to 85 south is perfectly logical, but depending on how it is parsed would put one miles apart on the map. That’s just one example of many. 'Round here we always include “highway”, “Interstate” or “I” in front of the number. Well, except for when we say “the downtown connector” which is where I-75 and I-85 combine while going through downtown Atlanta. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-northern-californians-get-upset-about-the-405/792308.md?page=5)