# Why do only Europeans make the world's most desirable cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134 "2011-11-16T16:55:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/21 "2011-11-16T22:08:16Z")
Different people have quite different ideas about what makes a car “desirable”. None of the cars in the OP are desirable to me. Quite the opposite. Toyota and Mazda make some cars that I desire. (While those are Japanese brands, not all are Japanese made, BTW.) _Consumer Reports_ just did an issue on auto reliability and the trend of some models of higher end European cars finishing rather low continues. Why buy something that’s overpriced to begin with, expensive to maintain and isn’t even a reliable car? And the higher the price tag, the more trouble they are, it seems. Do not want. Some people like flash for flash sakes. Others want affordable quality. ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/22 "2011-11-16T22:13:56Z")
Shelby ssc ultimate aero anyone? Lovely motor and all american… ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/23 "2011-11-16T22:22:58Z")
I, and other antique car fans, lust after Indiana cars- Deusenberg, Cord, Auburn, Stutz, Marmon, Studebaker. The only attainable one from this list for people of moderate means is a Studebaker. ---
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/24 "2011-11-16T23:11:44Z")
Oh **california** , I think I lurve you. Those are wonderful cars; classics and/or new. I’m a sucker for almost any classic car, but American classics can have such _flair_. My great-uncle’s 1959 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz (black as sin), might be a little over the top, but that’s the _point_. My Miata sportster might not make everyone’s most-desired list but it’s a damned fine little nubbin of Japanese machinery. Okay it’s part of Ford, but still not European and my heart skips a beat every time I look at it. Desirable. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/25 "2011-11-16T23:17:57Z")
: > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Personal opinion only but Cadillacs always seem tacky to me, Rolls Royces never. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/26 "2011-11-16T23:41:20Z")
> [@Bilbo1967](#): > > No, sorry, I just don’t buy that at all. Canvas any country in the world as to the most desirable cars (money no object) and Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche will top that list. I agree that an American muscle car might be more desirable than a run of the mill BMW or Mercedes, but not over a true supercar like the Ferrari or Lamborghini. I agree with this. Those who disagree: show us a country where Ferrari or Lamborghini are not at the top of most car-lovers’ dream-car lists. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/27 "2011-11-16T23:59:38Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Introducing the iCar. It runs only on Exxon (r) gas, and you have to take it to a back-alley mechanic to get the GPS unlocked so it will properly handle Canadian roads and other exotic locales. [hehe 🙂](http://www.startuptrekking.com/2010/05/steve-jobs-circa-2020-thoughts-on.html) ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/28 "2011-11-17T00:41:05Z")
> [@Bilbo1967](#): > > No, sorry, I just don’t buy that at all. Canvas any country in the world as to the most desirable cars (money no object) and Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche will top that list. I agree that an American muscle car might be more desirable than a run of the mill BMW or Mercedes, but not over a true supercar like the Ferrari or Lamborghini. Yes, but they’re still expensive. They still cost more than 99.99% of people can afford. The principle stands. And “any country in the world” means about 200 countries where those cars are imports, adding to it. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/29 "2011-11-17T01:19:12Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > And “any country in the world” means about 200 countries where those cars are imports, adding to it. You know, the Toyota Corolla is also an import in about 200 countries. That still doesn’t make it drool-worthy. And the Ferrari is a local car in Italy, and yet I still bet it’s a dream car for many Italians. This whole “import” explanation is a non-starter. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/30 "2011-11-17T03:36:30Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > You know, the Toyota Corolla is also an import in about 200 countries. That still doesn’t make it drool-worthy. > > And the Ferrari is a local car in Italy, and yet I still bet it’s a dream car for many Italians. > > This whole “import” explanation is a non-starter. I didn’t say that stuff not imported cannot ever be desirable. Really, is this such a controversial opinion that it attracts so much argument? Expensive imported stuff tends to be desirable. Yes, the expensive part is more important, and no, I’m not saying it’s a universal law that anything that is expensive or imported is desirable, or that anything not imported cannot be desirable. I’m simply saying that expensive imported stuff tends to be. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/31 "2011-11-17T04:05:15Z")
I think part of the issue may be branding. Ferrari, Lambo, Aston-Martin, etc either simply don’t make “normal” cars under their brand names, or those normal cars tend to be way overshadowed by the flashier models. Think “Ferrari” and you think of a cherry-red supercar that can go from 0-60 faster than you can read this. Think “Ford” and you think of, what, an Escort, or pickup, the GT isn’t likely to be your first thought even though they make it. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/32 "2011-11-17T04:17:28Z")
Ferrari is the expensive version of a Fiat. Lamborghini is the expensive version of a Chrysler, I mean, VW. Aston Martin was the expensive version of a Ford. If Ford only made the GT, Chevy only made the ZR1, and Dodge only made the Viper, you’d look at those companies the same way. Instead, they choose to let their flagship vehicles share the same badge as the parent company. BTW, the new top level Mustang has 650hp and can break 200mph. Supercar performance at a quarter of the price. I’d take the Mustang over a Ferrari. With the Mustang, I can go to Walmart and get 6 quarts of Motorcraft oil and an FL820s filter. With the Ferrari, I’d have to trailer it to the dealer every 3000 miles and pay a couple thousand just to get a stamp in the maintenance log so the value doesn’t drop into the gutter. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/33 "2011-11-17T04:52:10Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Other big countries aren’t even making anything worth noting (if they are producing cars at all): Russia, China, India, Brazil Just FYI, China makes [more cars than Japan and USA combined.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry#By_country) Brazil and India are in 6th and 7th place, right behind Germany and South Korea. Russia is way behind, but still ahead of the UK. Also worth noting, TVR is Russian owned, and Jaguar and Land Rover are owned by Tata Motors of India. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/34 "2011-11-17T05:32:23Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > So, why is it that only Europeans make the world’s most desirable cars? It has a lot to do with the tradition of using limited mechanical and/or manufacturing resources to win over available competition and produce a high quality product, that was cultivated in Europe since the late 1700’s. Japan and the US, even if they had much greater financial and economic power behind their manufacturing plants in the 20th century, they lacked a culture for striving for highly powered, efficient and usable product design. The US auto industry still does. About 90% of all its “high level” cars are still comparatively bloated high powered engines without a thoughtful design that takes the rest of a car’s major functions as an important consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/35 "2011-11-17T10:04:19Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Indeed. Foreign is exotic. Over here in Europe US cars are often seen that way. On my way to the train I often walk past a parked Mustang. I’ve no idea how desirable they are considered in the US, but to my European eyes it looks very different and very intriguing. Same here. A friend is an avid collector of fifties oldtimers (he has two himself) and through him I know of scores of Dutch people for whom such cars are a Big Thing and absolutely droolworthy. He took us out this summer for a ride in one of his cars and you wouldn’t believe the smiles we got. People photographed it, came up for an admiring chat, etc etc. [We felt like royalty](http://avanarum.hyves.nl/album/25750197/Vrienden/ZZN16Chr/#mb=1302668276.214.%7C6%7C%7C6782975%7C%7C%7C19%7C%7C25750197%7CZZN16Chr%7C%7C8%7C%7C1302668276%7C5Hi2%7C& __state__ =1). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/36 "2011-11-17T10:34:14Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Same here. A friend is an avid collector of fifties oldtimers (he has two himself) and through him I know of scores of Dutch people for whom such cars are a Big Thing and absolutely droolworthy. He took us out this summer for a ride in one of his cars and you wouldn’t believe the smiles we got. People photographed it, came up for an admiring chat, etc etc. [We felt like royalty](http://avanarum.hyves.nl/album/25750197/Vrienden/ZZN16Chr/#mb=1302668276.214.%7C6%7C%7C6782975%7C%7C%7C19%7C%7C25750197%7CZZN16Chr%7C%7C8%7C%7C1302668276%7C5Hi2%7C& __state__ =1). People driving around in 50s/60s American cars is such a subculture in Sweden that they have a widely used word for it: raggare. > **[Folkets lexikon](http://folkets-lexikon.csc.kth.se/folkets/#lookup&raggare&0)** > [@](#): > > raggare substantiv (vardagligt), member of a gang of youths who ride about in big American cars [informal] And a [Google Image Search](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHKZ_enSE432SE432&gcx=c&q=raggare&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1600&bih=1109&sei=4OLETqvCB86P4gTWq-GgDQ) to give you an idea of what I am talking about. (Ps. your image isn’t working for me) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/37 "2011-11-17T18:09:54Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Seems to me you are confusing desirable and affordable. _Now_ I’m confused. Not being a complete waste of money is a highly desirable thing to rational people, is it not? I love a good car. What some people think is a good car and others think a good car varies a lot. Hence the OP is fundamentally flawed. A lot of people, _a lot,_ are anti-impressed by overpriced, unreliable cars. Not desirable at all. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/38 "2011-11-17T21:42:02Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > _Now_ I’m confused. Not being a complete waste of money is a highly desirable thing to rational people, is it not? > > I love a good car. What some people think is a good car and others think a good car varies a lot. > > Hence the OP is fundamentally flawed. A lot of people, _a lot,_ are anti-impressed by overpriced, unreliable cars. Not desirable at all. Guys, can you try to understand what is being asked in the OP instead of taking using your own interpretation of what is being asked? The first sentence in the OP said “A couple of days ago there was an amazing new Ferrari parked on the street and a lot of passersby were stopping to take a picture of it. That made me think of all the cars that can elicit such a response” As desirable to you and a lot of people a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic may be, they are not cars that people on the street stop and photograph. If there are no cars that make you want to stop and admire/photograph, that’s fine, but be aware that these are the sorts of cars I’m asking about, and not about practical/sensible cars like the Honda Civic. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/39 "2011-11-17T21:49:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > People driving around in 50s/60s American cars is such a subculture in Sweden that they have a widely used word for it: raggare. This just shows that Americans used to make drool-worthy cars in the 50s, but not today. Yes, there is a limited number of supercars made in the US today, as some have pointed out, but it is limited (limited in numbers produced, limited in name recognition, and some are no longer produced). Compare that with the volume & name-recognition of cars like Ferrari and Porsche and of US cars from the 50s. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134/40 "2011-11-17T21:57:33Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > It has a lot to do with the tradition of using limited mechanical and/or manufacturing resources to win over available competition and produce a high quality product, that was cultivated in Europe since the late 1700’s. > > Japan and the US, even if they had much greater financial and economic power behind their manufacturing plants in the 20th century, they lacked a culture for striving for highly powered, efficient and usable product design. > > The US auto industry still does. About 90% of all its “high level” cars are still comparatively bloated high powered engines without a thoughtful design that takes the rest of a car’s major functions as an important consideration. This is the sort of answer I was hoping to get when posting the OP, i.e. one that addresses the core question in the OP, and isn’t all “But my Honda Civic is very desirable to me”. Essentially I agree with \*\*Naxos \*\*that it is about the culture of the different countries. It’s the same reason why Italy and France, countries with a relatively small population on the global scale, dominate high fashion with brands like Gucci, Versace, and Christian Dior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-only-europeans-make-the-worlds-most-desirable-cars/603134.md?page=3)