Why do only Honda and Suzuki make bikes AND cars?

[Cerowyn]

Honda, Suzuki and BMW are the only major manufacturers who make both production motorcycles and cars.

Motorcycle engines are in no way more sophisticated than car engines; they simply benefit from the higher power to displacement ratios available to smaller engines (check out an R/C model airplane engine if you want to see some staggering power to displacement ratios, and yet no one would be silly enough to suggest that they are even close to the sophistication of car engines).

The EPA banned two-stroke engines a long time ago, which is typical throwing-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater government short-sightedness, given the low emissions of several modern designs.

Yamaha has designed engines, although they are better known for their considerable work on tuned heads and exhausts (which seems natural given their long history in music and audio). The Taurus V-8, for instance, had Yamaha heads, but it was a Ford engine. The only car of which I am aware that could be said to be a Yamaha product was the Toyota 2000GT.

[t-keela]

Pardon my ignorance Cerowyn…but why does Triumph not fit into this group. They make both production motorcycles and cars don’t they?
Matter of fact I know a few folks who won’t run anything but a Triumph (car or bike).

[Cerowyn]

Triumph doesn’t make cars anymore; the last car made with that name was the Acclaim in 1981.

[Dog80]

@Cerowyn

Motorcycle engines are in no way more sophisticated than car engines; they simply benefit from the higher power to displacement ratios available to smaller engines (check out an R/C model airplane engine if you want to see some staggering power to displacement ratios, and yet no one would be silly enough to suggest that they are even close to the sophistication of car engines).

The higher hp/liter ratio of motorcycle engines is because they can reach higher revs. And they can do that because they are engineered with higher precision, lighter materials are used, better balancing, etc.

[t-keela]

@Cerowyn

Triumph doesn’t make cars anymore; the last car made with that name was the Acclaim in 1981.

No shit? Shows ya what I know. I was questioning whether or not they were still in the motorcycle business. It never occurred to me that they quit making cars. I’ll be damned. I’m gonna check that out some more. Thanks.

I did find a cite showing the line of Triumph sports bikes and one where a guy in the UK recently won some race on his Triumph ?? No cars…damn learn something everyday if you try hard enough I reckon.

How about BSA?

[t-keela]

from http://www.gbclassiccars.co.uk/triumph.html

" Many more great cars were produced during the 1960’s & 1970,s but by then Triumph had become part of the British Leyland group and the last car to bear the Triumph name was the Honda designed Acclaim which was produced between 1981 & 1984"

Didn’t doubt you for a minute Cerowyn I just like to see things for myself, ya know.
I guess my old buddy’s got a classic indeed. IIRC it’s a '80 model tr8 that looks like new. He’s got a 7 as well. I’m not certain about the years though. He bought the TR7 when we were in highschool (late 70’s) and it was pretty cool back then, still is.
Didn’t the Fonz ride a Triumph on Happy Days?

[casdave]

Triumph, the motorcycle manufacturer and Triumph the car maker were differant companies, the bike and car businesses were separated in 1936.The car company changed hands a few years later though it retained the name and the production facilities.

The car manufacturer was eventually absorbed into the British Leyland group in 1960, and although it turned out new model, it ceased to be an independant company.

Kawasaki are well known for making other things besides bikes from jet skis right through to earth moving and contruction mahcines, gas turbines, and even entire factories.I seem to remeber that they also make seriously heavy duty outboard boat engines and these get used in high speed applications.

Polaris industries are responsible for the Victory range of motorcycles, but they also make light construction machinery, but they are much better known for their range of jetskis and snowmobiles, which I believe are the biggest manufacturers of these products in the world. The bikes have completely differant engines to the other products so its not a case of similar products using common parts.

Peugeot make cars, and make scooters and small capacity bikes.

As fow two strokes, well they have not been banned as such, they just cant meet the emissions regulations, this might seem like almost the same thing, but its not.
Aprialia have been developing, under licence, a two stroke engine by a compaany called orbital.

This engine is unlike other two strokes in that the precompression stage is achieved in a separate compressor which is driven by the crankshaft, rather than in the carnkcase itself. The precompressed mixture is then fed into a chamber just above the cylinder, and electronically injected into the combustion chamber.

The crank sits in its own lub oil, not like in conventional 2 strokes where the crank sits in a fuel lub oil mixture, the whole lot of which is then used in combustion.The orbital engine has lower emissions than even 4 strokes, and the engine life is likely to be much longer than the average two stroke as the main bearings are now properly lubricated.

Hopefully the orbital engine will be developed much further as it has a very high power to weight ratio and high efficiency as it doesn’t have the valve train to drive.

http://www.energy.wa.gov.au/html/efficiencyawards2001/orbital.html

[t-keela]

@casdave

Triumph, the motorcycle manufacturer and Triumph the car maker were differant companies, the bike and car businesses were separated in 1936.The car company changed hands a few years later though it retained the name and the production facilities

That’s why I ask.
BTW from what I understand the restrictions on 2 vs. 4 stroke motors is supposedly gonna be applied to boat motors now. It sounds like a hornet’s nest is soon to be disturbed around these parts anyway. I haven’t researched it at all, just something I caught wind of recently.

[ceptimus]

You can buy a Porsche bike, but it doesn’t have an engine.

http://www.kinisibikes.com/porsche/porsche2004.htm

[Myglaren]

BSA never made cars, made aramaments instead. Motorcycles were a spin-off from armaments manufacture.

BSA= Birmingham Small Arms

[Gary_Robson]

@UncleBill

Dodge makes one (kinda, at least ONE)

HOLY COW! Dodge built a 500 horsepower motorcycle with a top speed of 300 mph? I’m (almost) speechless! If that sucker could tow a horse trailer, I’d trade in my truck right now.

[Charlie_Tan]

[tangent]
So how come Yamaha makes musical instruments? The leap from bike to car or vv is a lot smaller.

[casdave]

That Dodge motorcycle is very good for publicity purposes, but no-one has ever taken it to any real speed, its so unwieldy and the tyres simply cannot cope with the weight and power.

I had read that the most it has done was around 30mph, even then it didnt feel safe enough or stable enough to risk binning the worlds only example of this mechanically pointless excercise.

[yabob]

@The Gaspode

[tangent]
So how come Yamaha makes musical instruments? The leap from bike to car or vv is a lot smaller.

And what about Husqvarna? They started out as gunsmiths, started manufacturing clocks and sewing machines, then bicycles, motorcycles and chain saws, as well as various other things. Bicycles -> motorcycles -> chain saws at least makes sense. I don’t think they make motorcycles any more, but they make practically any piece of lawn and garden equipment with a small motor on it.

Yamaha, in fact, is a huge combined enterprise which manufactures a lot of stuff:

http://www.yamaha.com/

Their timeline is rather interesting:

http://www.global.yamaha.com/about/history.html

They made arrows, skis and tennis rackets, too, remember. In the 50’s, it seems that they tried to branch out from their materials expertise - metallurgical -> motorcycles - fiberglass -> archery products (this would explain boats, too).

Companies can go some strange places when they believe they have manufacturing capacity / expertise and see a market to use it in.