“I just wish the “pro” crowd got as much coverage as the “anti” bunch, but that’s just not news worthy, is it?”
It will be newsworthy when millions of pro-war protesters take to the streets of the world as the anti-war protesters did on 2/15. Until that time, though, you needn’t despair. In my area a small cadre of pro-war protesters has begun to park themselves across the street from the anti-war protesters and they are getting equal time in the local paper, and on radio stations. Indeed, they’re getting more than equal time considering that they are outnumbered by about 3 to 1.
I haven’t noticed any fashion difference, btw, between either group; though there is a certainly a difference in message.
The pro-war folks are partly asking for respect and support for military personnel overseas, and for love of country: neither of which the typical anti-war protester is unlikely to give wholeheartedly. Indeed, it’s pretty sad that the pro-war people seem to assume that the gist of anti-war protest is somehow anti-soldier and anti-American. It is neither: the anti-war protesters do support the troops and feel they should be brought home; and they are out there week after week b/c they value an American way of life that allows them, arguably exhorts them, to do so.
Look at the walk-out by high school students in New York City on March 5th. I agree that maybe,MAYBE a handful of students were hip to the cause, but for the rest, it was the COOL thing to do; walk-out of school and protest the war; Jenny said she would do it if you would; I dare you to do it.; come on, we’ll make it a party! We were all high school students at one time and know what the score is. It is the “in” thing to do; all the actors and singers are protesting, so it’s okay.
When this war is over, I wish these students could meet with a group of Iraqi students and parents, and explain to them why they did not support the action that freed them from a tyrant, that freed them from poverty, that freed them from unholy brutality that all these protesters seem to be overlooking. Do you see any Iraqis outside of Iraq, protesting against this war?
Any large groups of Iraqi ex-patriats marching in New York City calling on President Bush to stop? If there are, I have missed them.
FIREMAN: “When this war is over, I wish these students could meet with a group of Iraqi students and parents, and explain to them why they did not support the action that freed them from a tyrant, that freed them from poverty, that freed them from unholy brutality that all these protesters seem to be overlooking.”
What makes you so certain that these Iraqi students and parents will require such apologia? Perhaps some of them will have lost loved ones to US bombs. Perhaps some will have a good riddance attitude towards Saddam himself, but will not like the shape of American occupation. Where is the evidence that the massive bombing of their country, followed by military occupation, is going to free Iraqis from poverty? Have the Afghan people been freed from poverty?
Bear in mind, I do distinguish between the potential good of a post-Saddam Iraq and the demonstrable bad of how that goal has been approached by this administration. And there are indeed Iraqi expatriates who support the war. But the same Iraqi expatriates are already beginning to dissent from the Bush administration’s plans for a post-Saddam Iraq. Don’t you think you should at least inquire into that debate before assuming that the Iraqi people will rush to condemn New York City high school students who protested against the bombing, invasion, and eventual occupation of their country? Don’t you want at least to consider how neighboring countries feel? Why do you think that the Turks, for example, are so opposed if this is a clear-cut case of a humanitarian intervention in progress?
You have singled out the most defensible prong in the pro-war argument–that war may lead to a better future for Iraqis–stripped it of complications, and insulated it from a wide range of downsides. If I genuinely believed that Bush foreign policy was dictated by a universal desire to deliver human rights and basic needs to the world’s most oppressed and most impoverished, I would feel differently about the matter. I suspect that the vast majority of people in the world who now oppose Bush’s war would also feel somewhat differently. But that is manifestly not the case. The United States has limited credibility on this issue, and Bush himself has none.
If you want to understand what motivates other people you might want to begin by looking at what motivates your own views: from where I’m sitting, it looks to me as though your vision is rather selective.
Having seen dozens of Gay Pride Parades, it is the same story.
In West Hollywood threre would be a turnout of 300,000+ average-looking people at the parade, but the press ALWAYS and ONLY showed the two fat topless lesbians and the drag queen with a beard.
Maybe the reasons you only see loonies is because it makes for better press coverage.
Yes, we had this discussion before. You were wrong then, and you’re still wrong.
Here’s what the Tennessee Valley Authority
found by doing a C14 analysis of carbon particulates in the Smoky Mountains:
Get that? 50 to 90 percent of the ‘smog’ in the Smoky mountains comes from natural vegetation emissions. In the summer, the 90% number would be closer limit, and that explains why the ‘smog’ in the Smoky mountains is thickest in the summer. Specifically, terpenes emitted from the forests - the same stuff that gives Christmas trees their unique smell.
JonScribe got it right near the top of the thread. I see a lot of undereducated drunk “If you say anything against the war or the troops I’m gonna kick your ass” type people at the gatherings that I’ve seen.
Actually, I support the educated drunk “say anything bad about the troops”.
I’ll venture a gues that if a group of them blocked a peace protest like the peace protesters blocked morning traffic they would be crying and whining about their rights being violated…
Well, I went to the candlelight vigil held here in Rochester last week and I am a research scientist working for a Fortune 500 corporation. Also, the first person I ran into who I knew was someone who, although I knew him through other connections, turns out to be a former employee of the same corporation. And, the third person I met who I knew (and I only met three people total who I knew) was a fellow current employee working in the research labs.
And, all in all, most of the other people at the vigil looked pretty “normal” to me.
Maybe it’s just a Union Square thing then. And the fact that I see the same loonies out there each weekend.
Of course for all I know you could be standing naked in front of your mirror now doing the Buffalo Bill dance so “normal” could mean something completely diferent to us. (as I realize that I am typing at 2:30am while watching Blues Brothers in my underware)
How do you know about the backgrounds of people if you don’t talk to them? I am a bonafide NYU liberal arts grad (Class of '89), but I don’t have any tatoos, no piercings except for one in each ear, work for a law firm, have a graduate degree, and dress relatively conservatively. I don’t beat a drum, nor do I scream at people or block traffic or doors to government buildings. And yet I’ve been to 5 antiwar demonstrations in the past 7 days, where I have run into several family friends and various colleagues, all of whom fit similar profiles.
Fringe loonies make better TV, as several posters have already mentioned. I doubt anyone published a photo of my 60-year-old mother marching down the middle of Lake Shore Drive last night, and if you saw her in the supermarket, she probably wouldn’t draw a second glance.
Hey, come to think of it so am I. (NYU Master’s Degree, 1992). Thanks for reminding me Eva, so I could sport our school colors
I do wear a lot of black but I suspect that I would still pass for a sane and self-respecting professional in the discerning eyes of msmith.
And so I was protesting again today, and once again across the street the pro-war crowd was urging us to “Support our Troops” (which we do), and was flying the same American flag that we recognize as the symbol of the country whose wrong-head Iraq policy we are proudly able to dissent from as patriotic citizens. As they chanted “U.S.A.” I had to wonder if it was their impression that we had been flown in from Montreal to present them with the aspect of some foreign Francophile presence ;).
One thing I did notice is how, now that the war has begun, pro-war drivers are much more likely to raise their middle fingers in salute to anti-war protestors–a gesture that shocked the sensiblities of my polite (and non-loony) 9-year-old son.
