# Why do people author worms and viruses? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708 "2003-08-26T07:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/21 "2003-08-26T18:01:58Z")
> [@](#): > > A hacker is not a virus writer. I’d qualify that slightly: Most virus writers are not hackers, and most hackers are not virus writers, but there is some nonzero overlap. Even if most virus writers are just copying or adapting previous viruses, every new innovation had to be found by _somebody_. The writer of the first doc virus, for instance, might qualify for hacker status, but the thousands of doc viruses after that don’t (note, by the way, that that first doc virus carried no payload, merely a warning). In those rare cases where a hacker does write a virus, the motivation is most likely intellectual curiousity. Yes, there are also more productive things which can be done, and a hacker can be expected to do those, as well. ---
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/22 "2003-08-26T18:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Futile Gesture \* > \*\*A hacker is not a virus writer. > > _Damn computer nerds, they are all alike???_ \*\* Sorry about the correlation…didn’t mean to equate hackers to virus writers. I was looking for the mentality of a virus hacker and made a feable attempt to do this… BAD FRIXXXX…BAD FRIXXXX…BAD FRIXXXX…:smack: ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/23 "2003-08-26T19:17:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DreadCthulhu \* > \*\*Apple does it to make Windows look bad. \*\* Yeah, right. Like Micro$oft needs the help. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/24 "2003-08-26T20:08:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*No, **handy** and **Crafter\_Man** , those people write programs that are actually, you know, useful. If virus writers really wanted a challenge they’d find a real problem and solve it. \*\* That may be true today, but back in the “older days” virus writing was a true skill. Trying to get a program to avoid being detected through means like polymorphism is actually quite hard to do, and often the means of doing so while keeping program size down small enough to be a feasible virus were bordering on brilliance, in many cases. That doesn’t apply to generic VBScript virus 9.0, however. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/25 "2003-08-26T20:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*No, **handy** and **Crafter\_Man** , those people write programs that are actually, you know, useful. If virus writers really wanted a challenge they’d find a real problem and solve it. \*\* Like not having climbed a mountain is a real problem? In the case of MSBlaster, the motivation seems to have been to punish Microsoft for releasing buggy software. ---
**Author:** ![frixxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@frixxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frixxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/26 "2003-08-26T22:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\*In the case of MSBlaster, the motivation seems to have been to punish Microsoft for releasing buggy software. \*\* But really, these virus writers could probably make serious dough if they fixed the problems, then sold them to Microsoft™. Seems like the growing trend in technology has been to exploit rather than do something constructive. But then again, we’ve always had criminals! {frixxxx now gets off his soap box} ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/27 "2003-08-26T23:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by frixxxx \* > \*\*But really, these virus writers could probably make serious dough if they fixed the problems, then sold them to Microsoft™. > \*\* Probably an impossible feat, since Microsoft doesn’t even let legitimate software developers look at Windows source code. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/28 "2003-08-27T00:33:40Z")
**frixxxx** I do not want to be another one to chastise you for the “hacker = virus writer” correlation (for which you appropriately apologized). However, that article you posted was from 1986. Not many computer viruses back then. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/29 "2003-08-27T00:55:11Z")
Because they’re evil and have nothing better to do with their time, like jumping off a cliff or something that would benefit society better than their existence :mad: ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/30 "2003-08-27T01:59:53Z")
I imagine some of them apply this kind of logic: Suppose that for every few thousand kids who write viruses or break into systems just for the fun of it or to show off, there’s one person or group with some more sinister plans. Someone who could really do some severe damage if the kids weren’t there poking around, pointing out where all the security holes are. You could say that by doing what they do, crackers and virus writers help beef up the “immune systems” of computer systems everywhere by pointing out where the security lapses are. May not be a moral way to do it, but I’m sure at least some of them justify it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/31 "2003-08-27T02:46:26Z")
As fun as it is to suggest that virus writers are just trying to be l33t, or compensate for their tiny tadgers, or they have nothing better to do with their time… let me suggest a practical reason. Worms like Blaster/LovSan and SoBig can act as drones - one of their functions is to spread from one vulnerable system to another, but they also download and run other code. They can create a vast network of FTP servers to store illicit files, IRC proxies and bots to evade bans and take over channels, email proxies to relay spam, and so on. These services can either be used by the virus author and his friends, or they can be sold to others. An article from the New York Times ([picked up](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2065902) by the Houston Chronicle) suggests that SoBig may be intended to create a vast network of spam servers: > [@](#): > > One possibility now being discussed is that the program is an attempt to create software engines for sending spam by using unprotected computers that have been surreptitiously commandeered by the virus. Access to such computers could then be sold to e-mail companies. ---
**Author:** ![Matchka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Matchka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Matchka)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/32 "2003-08-27T03:44:38Z")
The role of you humans is to push evolution to the hilt. To stress as many species as thoroughly as possible. The “delicate” and “elegant” eat dirt. The tough and ingenious (and the lucky) survive and prosper in the filth to be tested another day with still greater horrors conjured by the two legged creature. Thus will the perfect beast be born. The role of the virus writer, whether he knows it or not, is to similarly affect computer code. We instil the virus-writing capability in thousands of our young agents every year who ceaselessly test and destroy fragile and elegant computer networks and programs. The “bulletproof” will set the patterns for future softwares, virus scanning programs are reactive and useless. When we began the conquest of the Andromeda Galaxy 13,459 of your years ago we had our manifold posterior elements handed to us by the Thremulites. Our machinery was inferior, our computers simple and our physical bodies weaker than our opponents’. In an enlightened moment, we realized it was not important that WE defeat the accursed enemy, but that the accursed enemy be defeated. And so we discovered the brilliant race that is you. You are very nearly completed…for your purpose. The computers & machinery is coming along nicely as well. In several millennia, the Thremulites will be destroyed and Andromeda will be OURS! ---
**Author:** ![Wolfrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/bb73d2/32.png) [@Wolfrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfrick)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/33 "2003-08-27T04:01:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolf\_meister \* > \*\ ***frixxxx** > I do not want to be another one to chastise you for the “hacker = virus writer” correlation (for which you appropriately apologized). > However, that article you posted was from 1986. Not many computer viruses back then. \*\* Yes there were. Worms and viruses have existed since the mainframe days. I remember the NETWORK of TRS80 workstations at my highschool having a worm my prof. couldn’t get rid of. This in 1985. There was a virus called the cookiemonster that infested college mainframes as far back as the middle seventies. Every so often the prompt “I wanna cookie” would pop up on your terminal, and refuse all input unless the user typed “cookie”. If you typed “oreo” it left you alone longer. I had an antivirus program and needed it on my Amiga 1000, c. 1986. Boot vector and cold capture vector viruses were a serious problem, and viruses killed many of my games. ~Wolfrick ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/34 "2003-08-27T06:29:35Z")
I’m not sure there is a definitive answer for the OP. Hence, this thread should move to IMHO. Don’t assume that all script kiddies are teenage mutants. The immaturity and ego problem children also include those in their 20s and 30s. Since peeing how far up the side side of outhouses, let alone tipping them over, are no longer in vogue, they have to find something else to occupy their time and the “look at me I’m important and know it,” attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/35 "2003-08-27T07:33:01Z")
As the OP stated, I’m looking for a practical reason for such behavior. There might not be one. Commercial sabotage was one that hadn’t come to mind yet, the psychological reasons seem all too clear. Care to contribute? ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/36 "2003-08-27T09:43:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dnooman \* > \*\*As the OP stated, I’m looking for a practical reason for such behavior. There might not be one. Commercial sabotage was one that hadn’t come to mind yet, the psychological reasons seem all too clear. > > Care to contribute? \*\* A practical reason: Most viruses contain greets or homages to girlfriends or female celebs. Distributing this virus will therefore impress the object of the writers desire no end, and they will become theirs until the end of time. Apart from the ‘spam-network’ theory currently being floated there are no practical reasons. Practical reasons are not the motivation. I guess this is IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708/37 "2003-08-27T13:55:14Z")
Off to IMHO. -xash General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-author-worms-and-viruses/197708.md?page=1)