# Why Do People Believe In Astrology? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322 "2002-11-18T16:44:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![psjt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@psjt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psjt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/121 "2017-08-03T14:24:40Z")
If you don’t have time and interest to find out the truth about a discipline, then don’t pretend to be able to judge it. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/122 "2017-08-03T14:27:45Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > If you don’t have time and interest to find out the truth about a discipline, then don’t pretend to be able to judge it. I judge a discipline by its verifiable results. Do you have any to share? Do we need to take your 12 week class to recognize a result? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/123 "2017-08-03T14:28:24Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > If you don’t have time and interest to find out the truth about a discipline, then don’t pretend to be able to judge it. Someone could say this about flat-earth, or lizard-people conspiracies, or that the Jews control the world, or a million other extraordinary ideas. Why should I invest time in your ideas, but not those other ones? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/124 "2017-08-03T14:29:05Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > Unless this discussion becomes more fruitful, I will bow out now and wish you all well, > > psjt If “fruitful” means “shedding light on the subject” then this thread is going gangbusters…but if your definition of “fruitful” means “acquiring new students for your course” then this particular tree will probably be barren of fruit. BTW, can you provide your best example of a current astrologer that is doing it right by your standards? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/125 "2017-08-03T14:33:06Z")
Advanced mathematics like calculus can make predictions that can then be checked. I don’t need to know the methods – a mathemetician/engineer can make a prediction about some physical phenomenon (say, at what storm speed will a bridge fail), and then if they do the math correctly, that prediction will be demonstrated as true. That provides credibility for that method. Is there any comparable demonstration astrology can make to provide such credibility? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/126 "2017-08-03T14:46:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Advanced mathematics like calculus can make predictions that can then be checked. I don’t need to know the methods – a mathemetician/engineer can make a prediction about some physical phenomenon (say, at what storm speed will a bridge fail), and then if they do the math correctly, that prediction will be demonstrated as true. That provides credibility for that method. > > Is there any comparable demonstration astrology can make to provide such credibility? You can use astrology to predict the tides. [Science can’t do that.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3AFMe2OQY) ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/127 "2017-08-03T14:55:22Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > \ > iiandyiii, Here’s a simple way for you to become better able to judge astrology: take my 12-week online beginning class with a sincere effort to understand **how to play the game** , and then I’ll make you some predictions. > [@psjt](#): > > Hi iiandyiiii, > > I think that after a proper 12-week class in the basics of horoscopic astrology, pursued with reasonable effort and open-mindedness, you would be smart enough to be able to\*\* play reasonably well the game\*\* the principles, rules, method and techniques of horoscopic astrology require. \ Bolding mine. If we’re just playing a game then we can write the rules and structure the universe the way we want it to be. I’m beginning to understand this now. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/128 "2017-08-03T15:19:00Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > If you have not carefully studied, understood and put into practice the theory of astrological significance and method of astrological determination that Jean-Baptiste Morin de Villefranche stated and demonstrated in Book 21 of _Astrologia Gallica_ (1661) (available in original Latin and English translation by Richard Baldwin) you lack necessary information, study and understanding to make the statement that astrological practice lacks efficacy and fails to provide knowledge of the real world. BTW, psjt, if you haven’t yet disappeared forever, having found infertile ground, what you have just employed is known as the [Courtier’s](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Courtier's_Reply) [Reply](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtier's_Reply). ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/129 "2017-08-03T15:22:17Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > If you don’t have time and interest to find out the truth about a discipline, then don’t pretend to be able to judge it. Based on your most recent replies you can disregard my previous questions. It is quite clear we won’t ever get a straight answer out of you. Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/130 "2017-08-03T16:15:59Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > My view is that to make a statement, one needs to know what they’re talking about. If you don’t know the theory, method and practice of horoscopic astrology, you are not in a position to judge it. This one’s been tried for homeopathy. Adherents have claimed that homeopathy is based on quantum mechanics, and if you don’t understand what they’re talking about, you can’t say homeopathy doesn’t work. Most famously, Lionel Milgrom [wrapped homeopathy in multiple layers of abstruse quantum world salad](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18399761). Fortunately there is a more simple and elegant quantum explanation: _“This theoretical approach to homeopathy leads to a whole spectrum of new insights. Given the quantum nature of homeopathic preparations, collapse of the wave function into a definite state, i.e., causing the molecules of working substance to be in a limited number of defined flasks by conscious observation, is a real problem. Quality control should therefore only be carried out by unconscious personnel. Likewise, there is a real danger that observation of the patient, and especially of those quantum states pertaining to the ailment, leads to a collapse of his or her wave function, and may destroy the beneficial effects of treatment. This is especially true after treatment, and it is therefore recommended that the doctor has no further contact with a patient after treatment. Best of all, he should move to another town, or for the truly conscientious, commit suicide. All this is most in the patients’ interest.”_ > **[qthair.pdf](https://www.cs.rug.nl/~michael/qthair.pdf)** > > 24.37 KB Anyway, one doesn’t need to be conversant in quantum mechanics to know that homeopathy is bunk, and one doesn’t need to take **psjt** ’s “proper 12-week class” to dismiss astrology. You can dress up the pig in top hat, tux and tails, and it’s still a pig. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/131 "2017-08-03T17:37:43Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > If you don’t have time and interest to find out the truth about a discipline, then don’t pretend to be able to judge it. Typical Pisces talk. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/132 "2017-08-03T17:42:26Z")
Aries don’t believe in astrology. Show me why I should in simple language. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/133 "2017-08-03T17:52:46Z")
Yet another good example of why we can’t make any new friends. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/134 "2017-08-03T17:58:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yet another good example of why we can’t make any new friends. Being polite and not running off new posters is too complex an idea to explain in this forum. But you can sign up for my 12-week course on the subject. (I put the “pal” in PayPal.") ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/135 "2017-08-03T18:04:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Yet another good example of why we can’t make any new friends. My friends don’t ask me for money before they’ll spill details on a subject. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/136 "2017-08-03T18:22:13Z")
Your horoscope warned me that you’d be a dollar wise but atrologically foolish today. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322/137 "2017-08-03T18:25:27Z")
> [@psjt](#): > > I am just now working on a lesson on measurement of quantity and quality in horoscopic astrology. That’s part of the math and measurements of astrology. If you’d like to know the math behind astrology, feel free to get in touch with me about joining my beginning online astrology class in the method of Morin de Villefranche beginning in mid-September. It’s too much to explain to someone who doesn’t understand the basics of the language and method. It takes learning (math) to understand the mathematics of numbers or astrology. Welcome to the Straight Dope, **psjt**. I’m going to close this zombie as it seems to have taken a turn to advertising. Discussing the merits or demerits of Astrology is perfectly okay and I see it under the guise of witnessing, but advertising is not okay so don’t do that, personal course or not. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-believe-in-astrology/137322.md?page=6)