Yes, many, probably most Mormons are fine folks. But that doesn’t stop their religion from being one of the most absurd concoctions ever devised by the addled brain of man.
Not worth talking about; not even worth thinking about.
My guess is the men are attracted to the idea of being a god in the afterlife and having lots of wives to screw and impregnate. Women buy into Mormonism because they like the idea of having an eternal family.
I think I’d rather end up in hell if Mormonism turns out to be the true religion. I liked being pregnant but I’m not keen on the idea of waddling around knocked up for all eternity and watching my husband nail other women.
Here’s what was said:
And AFAIK, Parker and Stone aren’t LDS members themselves, but grew up knowing many of them. Can’t remember where I read that though.
I think I’d rather end up in hell if Christianity turns out to be the true religion. I like singing but I’m not keen on the idea of singing God’s praises for all eternity and standing on a cloud.
There are so many things wrong with this that I’ll let somebody who isn’t so lazy pick it apart…
And I can’t see the appeal in conservative Christianity if it means you can screw whoever you like physically and metaphorically and still get eternal bliss because you’ve said six little words (“I accept Christ as my Saviour.”). Sorry, SnoopyFan, but that’s as accurate a representation of conservative Christianity as your representation of the Church of Latter-Day Saints.
Why do people believe in what this church teaches? I suspect for the same reasons some follow what the Episcopal Church teaches or what the Holy Roman Catholic Church teaches, or what various Evangelical or Pentecostal churches teach, not to mention what Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. teach. The reasons I’m Episcopalian is it provides something which other things in my life don’t, both spiritual and material, and because it helps the world make sense to me. To put it in it’s barest and most worldly terms, to me personally the benefits of being an Episcopalian outweigh the costs. That does not apply to all forms of Christianity, and I suspect the same could be said of a Mormon. \
Look, Zaphod, South Park doesn’t appeal to me at all! I find it rude, crude, mostly unfunny, and too inclined to go for cheap laughs when it is. Kids using foul language doesn’t particularly amuse me. On the other hand, you, apparently, like it. I won’t denigrate you for liking it, and, if you were a friend, I might try harder to see its appeal. I also admit I don’t know that much about it. How about you try to apply that attitude toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?
Respectfully,
CJ
Some ppl believe in the virgin birth of Jesus and the inerrancy of an old man in Rome. BOM is just keeping with the tradition.
As weird as the beliefs of Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists, et al may seem, at least they have a millenium or two or more of cultural and religious tradition backing them up. Someone inclined to believe in a supernatural All-Transcendant Whatever-It-Is that Makes the Universe go would simply have to examine the teachings and beliefs, claims made by and about their founders, and basically decide which of the ancient religions meshes best with their individual personality.
Mormonism, OTOH, is so transparently a bunch of stuff some guy named Joe Smith made up in order to gain advantage for himself that it isn’t even laughable. I can see someone who was raised in the beliefs of the LDS Church can believe in it, just because it’s human nature to believe the things you were taught as a child. What gets me is how any intelligent, rational adult human being could make a decision to join the Mormon Church. When I was fourteen, my stepfather became friendly with a pair of Mormon missionaries, and invited them into our home to give the teachings. By the time they got done, I was ready to dive into the baptismal font, but the parental units wouldn’t allow it. But, I was fourteen and extremely impressionable.
One of the things about the Mormon teachings that sticks out most in my mother’s mind was when she asked one of the Elders, “Why can a man have more than one wife, but a woman can’t have more than one husband.” He looked her in the eye, and, with a perfectly straight face said, “Because you can only serve one master”.
Needless to say, my mom was highly disinclined to join a religion that regards women as nothing more than servants to men.
If it were that much of a slam-dunk, if it were that obvious and easy, I doubt so many otherwise educated, enlightened, and intelligent people would be members of the Mormon church and would believe in validity of the Book of Mormon.
Obviously, it’s not that obvious or simple. I’m sure one of our Mormon members can come along and elaborate.
Yeah, that would be a deal-breaker for me too.
To be fair, I know some Mormons (all in the Southern California area) who had what appeared to me to be a very “equal” and happy marriage.
One Mormon friend was especially cool. Her husband was an actor (mostly commercials and bit parts) and I still see him on TV now and then. They seemed to have what I would consider to be a “normal” marriage and I saw no evidence of this “master” nonsense. This guy was her husband and partner, not her master.
I believe Monty once referenced the line in the BoM that says (paraphrasing) that if you read the book and look into your heart, you’ll know it’s true. He said he did so, and that’s why he joined the LDS church.
Personally, I prefer to stick with my brain when evaluating the the truth or falsity of such extraordinary claims. But religious faith is not generally subject to such considerations.
If your elder had been right, I might not be LDS myself. However, he wasn’t. I am not my husband’s servant (polygamist or not), and women are not viewed as such in LDS doctrine. One of the disadvantages–and advantages–of the LDS missionary program is that we send out 19-year-old boys almost totally untrained to do the job. They aren’t professionals, and they often have weird ideas, as your elder did. The doctrine has to pretty much speak for itself, ‘cause the missionaries sure aren’t trained to do it–and they still manage to get people to listen to the Spirit, and people still get baptized. Amazin’, isn’t it?
For a small taste of what we do believe, try The Proclamation on the Family that was issued a few years back.
As for why polygamy was set up the way it was, I dunno. :shrug: There are a lot of unknowns about polygamy and the whys and wherefores thereof.
And I daresay that this is how most people join whatever church or faith that they join. 'Cause, you know, the whole virgin birth and walking on water thing would be completly impossible to swallow on face value. One has to take that leap and have faith that it is true. The same would apply, one would assume, with the Book of Mormon.
Obviously not. Not any religion.
I have a friend who is a member of a particular Christian faith, and she liked to brag to our atheist friends that her flavor of Christianity was more “scientific.” I never saw the validity in that. If it’s Christian, meaning, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died and rose again, etc. etc., then sorry, that ain’t “scientific.”
What great advantages do you think he had? Several visits to prison for non-existant crimes? I can see why he would want that–prison can be fun. Getting tarred and feathered in the dead of the night—well, hot tar would warm you if it was during the winter. Being murdered by a mob attacking the prison–well everybody has to die. Might as well be big! Being run out of several cities, being forced to leave your belongings and home behind (including Bogg’s Extermination Order and the Haun’s Mill Massacre), putting a major strain on your relationship with your wife (who you love dearly), watching your children die from being exposed to the elements (what a kick in the teeth that must have been—the kid probably died shortly after he finished picking the tar off of his body)…Being abandoned by family and friends…
Well if that’s the kind of advantages a person can look forward to by founding a religoin than look for the Church of Pepper to be established sometime next year…
First of all sorry for the wrong name typing (joseph - george smith is an australian Rugby union player), was at work since 6 in the morning with nothing to do cause its the holidays…
I didnt say i believed any religions and yours is a valid point, i still dont believe in more orthodox religions such as christianity etc, i went to a strict catholic school and found the teachings of the bible contradicted the actions of those teaching it as such was strongly turned from religion.
I often have debates on religion with my girlfriend as she is a fairly strong anglican and i am a heathen in her views because i dont really follow a religion. Whilst i believe the ideals and the story told in the bible is good and the idea behind the fables are good and decent, i dont feel that i should follow a religion or live my life devoted to it. I also do not believe for one minute that any story within the bible is true, i know how easily people are willing to believe things are a miracle when they dont comprehend an actions real cause.
If i were to follow any religion i would choose budhism, as its the only one that i find a real physical and mental challenge. Meditation is hard and it doesnt really force you to believe anything, although my knowledge ont he full teachings of buddha are limited, the idea of inner peace and clearing my mind appeals to me, as the 1000 thoughts per second that whirl through my brain would be a pleasure to be rid of.
Anyway i think my questions have been answered, thank you all.
Zaphod
“chloroform in print”.
I know the thread has moved on, but I just have to say that when he was two, and impossible to put to bed, my middle son could be put right to sleep my reading him the Book of Mormon.
It was my sister who discovered it.
If its Dr.Pepper, I’ll join!
You don’t have to.
Sometimes you can fly.
This is so stupid I almost can’t believe I read it. You’re saying that in a thousand years, LDS will be a valid religion… but it’s not now, because it isn’t old. Age is an indicator of quality? Crud. Ancient religions are the only valid choices? Crud. Utter crud.
With ignorance comes certainty, it seems. As for the polygamy stuff, try reading.
The Mormon religion isn’t any dumber than any other religion. I have no more difficulty understanding why people become Mormons than why they become Christians or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists.
They make you watch? :eek:
While IMO all religions are scemes created bu the unscrupulous to prey on the credulous, the LDS church is the only one that makes falsifiable claims, i.e. describing people, places, and events that demonstrably never existed. If Joseph Smith had simply confined himself to saying JC appeared in the Americas and preached to the Indians, then his claims would not be subject ot contradiction. But when he creates Meso-American Jewish empires out of whole cloth, complete with forged steel, chariots, horses, cows, and elephants, then it is absurd to say that those claims may not be challenged merely because they are “sacred.”
(No, we are not going to have that discussion again.)
And while it is unfair to disparage the LDS creed merely because of its relative youth as a world faith, the adage “familiarity breeds contempt” holds true. Unlike the other founders of the greeat relgions, Joseph’s background, ancestry, and environment are completely familiar to Americans and thus it is hard for U.S. Gentiles to give the LDS the same degree of respect that they would give an equally nonsensical foreign faith like Falun Gong.
Because theology makes no claims that can be checked, religions are not subject to the same skeptical analysis that other woo-woo claims are. If I proclaim that an angel appeared to me and declared that I was to be the New Prophet of the Millennium a la Angels in America, who could disprove it?
As long as religions stick to pronouncements on nebulous subjects like souls and salvation, they’re on safe ground, more or less. It is only when they venture to make claims that can be skeptically evaluated, like faith healing or miracle working, that they can be slapped upside the head with the evidence. If the LDS wish to believe that Joe Smith was a prophet of God, good for them. If they believe that the Indians used chariots and swords, then they are going to have to accept the archeological evidence against it.
In any event the LDS Dopers, by and large, are good folks, and if, like supply-side economists, they wish to cling to a mystical faith that gives them comfort, we should let them be.