# Why Do People Hate America?...ok, but let me ask you this **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2007, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577 "2007-05-18T10:34:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/81 "2007-05-23T15:35:30Z")
Here, you don’t even have to read. Just watch, an then again, tell me about that “perspective” of yours: [**Overthrow, America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17743.htm) You’re welcomed. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/82 "2007-05-23T16:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Here, you don’t even have to read. Just watch, an then again, tell me about that “perspective” of yours: [**Overthrow, America’s Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17743.htm) You’re welcomed. [/QUOTE] Could you summarize this for us? I’d like to watch it but it’s a little long for at the office. What are the other regimes discussed? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/83 "2007-05-23T17:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Could you summarize this for us? I’d like to watch it but it’s a little long for at the office. What are the other regimes discussed? [/QUOTE] Synopsis: the author has picked 14 American interventions/overthrows (limiting them by the fact that all of them directly resulted in the overthrow of the current Governments) beginning with the Spanish/American War, and then went on to analyze the results of same by using a three-pronged approach: asking how the nation got involved to begin with, why they did it, and lastly, what are the historical results (positive or negative) of each intervention. Due to time limits, he goes into the details of three of them in particular: Spanish-American War, the myriad of broken promises afterwards that ultimately led to Castro, the CIA-backed overthrow of Iran’s Muhammad Mossadeq when he tried to wrest back control of Iranian oil from the BP, all under the specter of a completely unexistent “communisnm” in Iran, and lastly, the overthrow of Arbenz in Nicaragua when he tried to get back some unused land from the American Fruit Co. He mentions how influencial said period was in the formation of Che Guevara’s views…who went on, shortly after, to meet Castro in Mexico to help plot Castro’s own invasion. Highly recommended. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/84 "2007-05-23T17:57:57Z")
PS-Should be of especial interest to **'luc** , as it was hosted by The Mark Twain House and Museum and the author/speaker, Stephen Kinzer, ex-NYT reporter, prophetically quotes The Great Man himself on a number of occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/85 "2007-05-24T04:49:48Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] No, they mustn’t. I have no idea why you think that. There is no ‘must’ about it. [/QUOTE] Why is Political Science the only scientific disciple where the word ‘should’ comes into play. Issac Newton didn’t have to deal with people saying things ‘should’ fall faster. Pythagoras didn’t have to deal with people arguing a^2+b^2 should = c^3. People are predictable otherwise there’d be no Sociology or Psychology…it’s a small step then to larger systems. [QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] It’s there to read in the history books. And in the documents of the US government. You can read the records of the discussions between the CIA and the government as they plotted to get rid of Allende, for example. I did for one of my university papers. [/QUOTE] Yeah, except what was stated was “all the other things we did make us even slightly safer from nuclear attack ? They didn’t.” That, you cannot prove. I didn’t say America didn’t interfere, you just can’t say it did nothing to stop an eventual nuclear confrontation. [QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] The reason people thought what they thought is that they bought the propaganda they were fed. So that ‘the people’ thought there was a problem is immaterial. [/QUOTE] According to McNamara in both _Fog of War_ and _In Retrospect_ he gives a firsthand account in the war room during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The highest echelon in America was shitting itself. [QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Look up ‘sabre-rattling’. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: What was said was “only thing that protected us from nuclear attack were our own nukes, and the non-suicidal nature of the Soviet leadership.” I just pointed out that a Soviet dictator has a firmer finger on the button and that finger belonged to a man with a tempter. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/86 "2007-05-24T05:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] and that finger belonged to a man with a tempter. [/QUOTE] Satan? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/87 "2007-05-24T19:20:49Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Due to time limits, he goes into the details of three of them in particular: Spanish-American War, the myriad of broken promises afterwards that ultimately led to Castro, the CIA-backed overthrow of Iran’s Muhammad Mossadeq when he tried to wrest back control of Iranian oil from the BP, all under the specter of a completely unexistent “communisnm” in Iran, and lastly, the overthrow of Arbenz in Nicaragua when he tried to get back some unused land from the American Fruit Co. He mentions how influencial said period was in the formation of Che Guevara’s views…who went on, shortly after, to meet Castro in Mexico to help plot Castro’s own invasion. Highly recommended. [/QUOTE] Just wanted to thank you for the link. Since it was only a lecture, and not something where I would have to watch the video to get the whole content, I did listen to the whole thing. Nothing too surprising, although I wasn’t aware of the back story on the Cuban revolution. History’s a bitch, isn’t it? It can come back to bite you 100 years down the line. I’ll bet most people think the Cuba Libre mixed drink (rum, coke, and lime juice) was invented by Cuban expatriates in the early 1960s, when actually it goes back to the independence struggle 100 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/88 "2007-05-24T21:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=zhongguorenmin] So America imprisons its enemies in Guantanamo bay. Fine, don’t tell me Britain wouldn’t do the same, or just put a bullet in their heads (think James Bond - he’s basically shown as a murderer for the UK govt). [/QUOTE] They did do just that. They locked people up without trial. It was called [internment](http://www.politics.ie/wiki/index.php?title=Internment_in_Northern_Ireland) . The IRA’s action led to it. Here in the ROI we did it as well to IRA suspects. Any country will/can do it. It’s always been counter productive in the long run but when fear is ramped up because of real and manufactured reasons, civil liberties are always at risk because of reactionary policies. > [@](#): > > he was re-elected by a huge popular vote majority Nope. The electoral college system may make it look like that but the actual popular vote was within a couple of percent. Dubya actually lost the popular vote the first time but the electoral college system with a little help from the Supreme Court gave him a win. That’s only taking the people who voted into account. > [@](#): > > Statistics on voter turnout presented here show that the much-lamented decline in voter participation is an artifact of the way in which it is measured. The most typical way to calculate the turnout rate is to divide the number of votes by what is called the “voting-age population” which consists of everyone age 18 and older residing in the United States. This includes persons ineligible to vote, mainly non-citizens and ineligible felons, and excludes overseas eligible voters. When turnout rates are calculated for those eligible to vote, a new picture of turnout emerges, which exhibits no decline since 1972. [http://elections.gmu.edu/voter\_turnout.htm](http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm) [Graph](http://elections.gmu.edu/turnout_rates_graph.htm) ---
**Author:** ![NoALittleH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f6c823/32.png) [@NoALittleH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoALittleH)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/89 "2007-05-25T03:53:50Z")
Just want to add my two cents about American culture. The idea that America ‘forces’ its culture on others is preposterous. If the popular kid at school begins wearing blue jeans, and everyone else wants to wear blue jeans, you can’t blame the popular kid. He just wears what he wants, and others want to be like him. He isn’t forcing anyone else to wear the blue jeans. The same goes with American culture. We make good movies/music/books/whatever, and others end up wanting it. No one is forcing it upon you. Cheers, NoALittleH ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/90 "2007-05-25T12:07:05Z")
[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster] Satan? [/QUOTE] Har, har…so is that pretty much your entire rebuttal? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/91 "2007-05-25T16:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] Why is Political Science the only scientific disciple where the word ‘should’ comes into play. Issac Newton didn’t have to deal with people saying things ‘should’ fall faster. Pythagoras didn’t have to deal with people arguing a^2+b^2 should = c^3. People are predictable otherwise there’d be no Sociology or Psychology…it’s a small step then to larger systems. . [/QUOTE] Becuase political science isn’t a science, and as far as I can tell does not hold itself out as one. An older meaning of the word ‘science’ is simply knowledge or learning in any field. - SoP, proud holder of a master’s degree in Library Science. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/92 "2007-05-25T17:03:09Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] Har, har…so is that pretty much your entire rebuttal? [/QUOTE] Whooosh! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/93 "2007-05-25T18:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Becuase political science isn’t a science, and as far as I can tell does not hold itself out as one. An older meaning of the word ‘science’ is simply knowledge or learning in any field. - SoP, proud holder of a master’s degree in Library Science. [/QUOTE] Political Science is a science, albeit a social science, and a comparatively young one, dating back to the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, and using the scientific methiod to study the way that communities distribute power and resources. -CA, proud holder of a master’s degree in Political Science/Government ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/94 "2007-05-27T06:18:09Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Becuase political science isn’t a science, and as far as I can tell does not hold itself out as one. An older meaning of the word ‘science’ is simply knowledge or learning in any field. - SoP, proud holder of a master’s degree in Library Science. [/QUOTE] From Wikipedia: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Political Science is a field of social **scientific inquiry** concerned with theory, description, analysis and prediction of political behavior, political systems and politics broadly-construed. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=National Research Council] **Scientific inquiry** is a term that encompasses a variety of techniques that scientists use to explore the natural world and propose explanations based on the evidence they find. According to the National Science Education Standards (National Research Council 1996) inquiry activities include making observations; posing questions; finding out what is already known; planning investigations; reviewing past knowledge in light of experimental evidence; using tools to gather, analyze, and interpret data; proposing explanations; and communicating the results. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, what were you saying? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/95 "2007-05-27T06:55:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] From Wikipedia: I’m sorry, what were you saying? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Wikipedia] This article or section does not cite any references or sources. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, Wikipedia is supposed to be a place to guide you, not an end in itself, so: What were _you_ saying? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/96 "2007-05-27T12:52:51Z")
[QUOTE=NoALittleH] Just want to add my two cents about American culture. The idea that America ‘forces’ its culture on others is preposterous. If the popular kid at school begins wearing blue jeans, and everyone else wants to wear blue jeans, you can’t blame the popular kid. He just wears what he wants, and others want to be like him. He isn’t forcing anyone else to wear the blue jeans. The same goes with American culture. We make good movies/music/books/whatever, and others end up wanting it. No one is forcing it upon you. Cheers, NoALittleH [/QUOTE] Very good observation. But America does use her power to change other countries also. The bottom line in hate is fear. Other countries fear America not being certain what course she will take. Fear leads to anger, and anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering for the person who hates. Ala Starwars. The only way to overcome fear is to walk right through it by gaining knowledge of the feared. But unfortunately money has the biggest voice in this world. Almost everything is about money. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577/97 "2007-05-29T06:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] I’m sorry, Wikipedia is supposed to be a place to guide you, not an end in itself, so: What were _you_ saying? [/QUOTE] Wikipedia is an encyclopedia…last time I checked you will find those books in the REFERENCE section of your local library, but fine: > **[Political Science | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/political-science-and-government/political-science-terms-and-concepts/political-science#politscie)** > > Political ScienceThe basic subject matter \[1\]Content \[2\]Method and theory \[3\]BIBLIOGRAPHY \[4\]This article provides a broad introduction to the discipline of political science \[5\]. or [http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/polisci.html](http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/polisci.html) Now I urge you to look up ‘pedantic’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-america-ok-but-let-me-ask-you-this/404577.md?page=4)