# Why do people hate anti-vaxxers? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644 "2016-12-13T23:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/101 "2017-01-30T19:15:05Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ve told anti-vaxxers to be very careful whom they discuss this with…People have lost…jobs Do you have any examples (other than health care workers who refused to get mandated vaccinations to protect patients)? > [@](#): > > …and been harassed for being anti vax. Refuting antivax memes in online exchanges is not the definition of “harassment”. Or do you mean instances [like](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-07-12/anti-vaccine-group-accused-of-harassing-parents/901904) [these](http://jezebel.com/meet-the-new-dangerous-fringe-of-the-anti-vaccination-1713438567)? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/102 "2017-01-31T09:38:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you are going to say things that directly contradict each other, you might want to post one thing in one post or thread, and the opposite thing in another post or thread-make people _work_ to see the contradiction. Or at least put the [United Way update](http://dilbert.com/strip/1995-10-02) between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/103 "2017-01-31T13:58:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Here’s a very interesting [site](http://www.historyofvaccines.org/) on vaccinations. It also addresses the whole, “[it’s too many at once](http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/misconceptions-about-vaccines)!” argument. One of the problems over here (UK) was that parents, on hearing the overload hypothesis, wanted their children vaccinated but wanted the vaccinations done separately. Unfortunately some idiot at the NHS decided it was more important that the NHS be scientifically correct than children be vaccinated, so many children never got vaccinated at all. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/104 "2017-01-31T14:12:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’ve told anti-vaxxers to be very careful whom they discuss this with. For example when a local tv station wanted to interview them I cautioned them to not do it. Dont give out their names for millions to see. People have lost friends, jobs, and been harassed for being anti vax. Its best to keep it to ourselves and slowly build our movement quietly. I mean look at some of the angry statements on this thread alone. > > What is interesting is many anti vaxxers are people from the left. One of my Facebook friends was adamantly opposed to Trump but she silently cheered when she found out he was going to investigate the issue. An anti-Trump coworker of mine is anti vax. > > Personally, I am middle of the road on it. Doesn’t that secrecy mean not telling people who have young kids to not tell other people that their kids aren’t immunised and also not say “sorry, Jack’s not immunised, so you’d be best not to hold him” to people who are immunocompromised? Being genuinely middle of the road would mean not exposing people to the risks of non-vaccination by, at minimum, alerting them to your child’s status. Give them the choice, not just you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/105 "2017-02-01T02:00:15Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > People have lost friends, jobs, and been harassed for being anti vax. What about the people who have lost their lives because of diseases that vaccines prevent? As far as I’m concerned, anti-vaxxers are scum, and deserve all of those “angry statements”. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/106 "2017-02-01T02:16:27Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > One of the problems over here (UK) was that parents, on hearing the overload hypothesis, wanted their children vaccinated but wanted the vaccinations done separately. Unfortunately some idiot at the NHS decided it was more important that the NHS be scientifically correct than children be vaccinated, so many children never got vaccinated at all. :smack: Those “idiots” might well have thought that if they backed down, the parents in question would take it as confirmation that the overload hypothesis was correct, regardless of any disclaimers the NHS might give. Those “idiots” might have surmised that this would erode parents’ faith in the authority of the NHS. The “idiots” may have been taking a long term view. Count me as someone who can see the sense in the thinking of the “idiots”. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/107 "2017-02-03T18:59:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > She has tumbled to our evil plan…almost. > > The goal is not infection, but [population reduction](http://www.vaccines.news/2016-04-27-population-control-unraveling-right-before-our-eyes-the-vaccine-agenda.html). > > The sheeple are falling in line nicely. 😃 Her latest post is from a doctor who is willing to put her family in danger [her words, paraphrased) by not vaxxing them because vaccines come from…the tissue of aborted fetuses. Therefore, they’re inherently evil. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/108 "2017-02-03T19:44:00Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Her latest post is from a doctor who is willing to put her family in danger [her words, paraphrased) by not vaxxing them because vaccines come from…the tissue of aborted fetuses. Therefore, they’re inherently evil. Oh, [it’s worse than that.](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cXcTgxFAX1k/T2864aba32I/AAAAAAAAAdw/IwCiOLi5Gts/s1600/toxic-vaccine-dees.jpg) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/109 "2017-02-03T19:53:34Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Those “idiots” might have surmised that this would erode parents’ faith in the authority of the NHS. The “idiots” may have been taking a long term view. IIRC the doctors were not allowed to prescribe the separate injections; they didn’t have any choice. It was decided upon by those further up the tree. I still think that it’s idiotic. They had a treatment which worked. It just required three injections rather than one and the child would have been inoculated. Instead of which, thousands of children were left vulnerable. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/110 "2017-02-06T01:12:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > IIRC the doctors were not allowed to prescribe the separate injections; they didn’t have any choice. It was decided upon by those further up the tree. I still think that it’s idiotic. They had a treatment which worked. It just required three injections rather than one and the child would have been inoculated. Instead of which, thousands of children were left vulnerable. But if they had backed down it would have been spun as an admission by the ant-vaxxers, and who knows how many would have been convinced and left their children vulnerable as a consequence? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/111 "2017-02-06T05:00:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Because, even more than anti-health, anti-vaxxers are anti-science. Anti-common sense. Reality deniers. They live in a post-facts world. Yeah, they’re SO worried about some vanishingly tiny (by their own admission) chance of having some kind of unproven negative consequence happen due to vaccinations that they’re willing to entirely fuck up the whole vaccination system/herd immunity/etc… AND put their own children at a vastly higher risk of catching serious diseases. It’s like being so worried about your child being trapped in the car by a seat belt in case of a wreck that you don’t put them in the car seat. Patent, absurd and criminal stupidity and lack of critical thinking which puts others at risk. And for what? So someone can satisfy their fear of “chemicals” and other equally idiotic hippie crap? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/112 "2017-02-06T05:07:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Yeah, they’re SO worried about some vanishingly tiny (by their own admission) chance of having some kind of unproven negative consequence happen due to vaccinations that they’re willing to entirely fuck up the whole vaccination system/herd immunity/etc… AND put their own children at a vastly higher risk of catching serious diseases. > > It’s like being so worried about your child being trapped in the car by a seat belt in case of a wreck that you don’t put them in the car seat. Patent, absurd and criminal stupidity and lack of critical thinking which puts others at risk. And for what? **So someone can satisfy their fear of “chemicals” and other equally idiotic hippie crap?** Oddly, studies have found anti-vaxxers run the range from far right to far left in roughly equal numbers. (from memory) Similarities include somewhat higher than average income and high participation in social media. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/113 "2017-02-06T14:35:22Z")
Because all childhood diseases are so mild that nobody has any bad effects from them, but everyone who had one vaccine is a raving lunatic. Or so the anti-vaxx crowd would have you believe. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/114 "2017-02-06T15:08:31Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Oddly, studies have found anti-vaxxers run the range from far right to far left in roughly equal numbers. > > (from memory) Similarities include somewhat higher than average income and high participation in social media. [Some info.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4162046/) > [@](#): > > It is important to understand who refuses vaccines and for what reasons. Smith et al. used the National Immunization Survey from 1995 through 2001 to characterize infants who received no routine childhood immunizations.25 Unvaccinated infants were more likely to be male, white, with married mothers of age ≥ 30 y, college educated, living in households with an annual income ≥ $75 000 and with ≥ 4 children compared with vaccinated infants. Other studies have characterized unvaccinated children belonging to families intentionally refusing vaccines with similar demographic characteristics.9,26-30 > > There are several reasons for parents claiming non-medical exemptions to routine childhood immunizations for school entry. A case-control study of unvaccinated children claiming non-medical exemption reported significantly lower perceived vaccine safety (61% vs. 15%) and efficacy (54% vs. 17%), lower perceived disease susceptibility (58% vs. 15%) and severity (51% vs. 18%), and low trust in the government (40% vs. 23%) compared with vaccinated children The last bit is why it does not seem too odd to me that the far right and left both are over-represented. They share a low trust in government. I understand the desire to think of these parents as “scum” but my concern is the general public good and treating them as scum may be an ineffective tactic. They are paranoid to be sure (of government, Big Pharma, Big Medicine, Science, any and all of the above) and _very_ mistaken, potentially tragically so. But most are believing that they are doing what is best for their children. FWIW in my pediatric practice I see far fewer refusers than I used to (very few now) and well over half who do refuse I can flip over time as we develop a relationship in which they see me as a trusted source. I More “delayers” now … I see engaging with them without calling them names as serving the public good. ---
**Author:** ![Vicsage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e68b1a/32.png) [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/115 "2017-02-06T15:32:47Z")
How can you believe in something without demonizing and degrading the other side? This is America in the age of the internet. Get with the times. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/116 "2017-02-06T18:36:35Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > But if they had backed down it would have been spun as an admission by the ant-vaxxers, Is that as important as getting the children vaccinated? > [@](#): > > and who knows how many would have been convinced and left their children vulnerable as a consequence? Umm… none. As the old vaccine would still be in use. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/117 "2017-02-07T02:06:58Z")
> [@Vicsage](#): > > How can you believe in something without demonizing and degrading the other side? This is America in the age of the internet. Get with the times. It’s not about “demonizing and degrading”. It’s the fact that the anti-vax movement is dangerous and that they put other people at risk. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/118 "2017-02-07T13:23:31Z")
I think it’s important to not confuse parents who are hesitant about vaccines with antivaxers. The former are potentially amenable to facts and logic. The latter are virulent science deniers, as defined in [this recent publication](http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/315761/Best-practice-guidance-respond-vocal-vaccine-deniers-public.pdf?ua=1) by the World Health Organization. _The five characteristics of science denialism (first introduced by Hoofnagle & Hoofnagle [15] and discussed by Diethelm and McKee [19]). 1. Conspiracies Arguing that scientific consensus is the result of a complex and secretive conspiracy. 2. Fake experts Using fake experts as authorities combined with denigration of established experts. 3. Selectivity Referring to isolated papers that challenge scien- tific consensus. 4. Impossible expectations Expecting 100% certain results or health treat- ments with no possible side-effects. 5. Misrepresentation and false logic Jumping to conclusions, using false analogies etc._ > [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW in my pediatric practice I see far fewer refusers than I used to (very few now) and well over half who do refuse I can flip over time as we develop a relationship in which they see me as a trusted source. I More “delayers” now … I see engaging with them without calling them names as serving the public good. This is interesting, seeing that awhile back in a similar thread you discussed the increasing tendency of pediatricians in your area to drop vaccine-refusing parents from their practices, your concern that they would be dumped on you and what I recall as your intention (however reluctantly) to follow the lead of those other pediatricians and not allow persistent vaccine-refusing parents and their kids in your practice to protect other patients. Does it still concern you that while you are lobbying vaccine-refusing parents over time, their unprotected kids are still in your waiting room and examination rooms, potentially infecting other children (including those too young for vaccination or who have immune deficiencies that make them especially susceptible to dangerous communicable diseases)? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/119 "2017-02-07T13:29:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Is that as important as getting the children vaccinated? > > Umm… none. As the old vaccine would still be in use. You don’t get it. Go back and try again. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644/120 "2017-02-07T13:37:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > But if they had backed down it would have been spun as an admission by the **ant-vaxxers** > [@Quartz](#): > > Is that as important as getting the children vaccinated? I think that getting children vaccinated is definitely more important than getting ants vaccinated 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-anti-vaxxers/774644.md?page=7)