# Why do people hate "wiggers?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256 "2007-06-08T14:13:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/1 "2007-06-08T14:13:11Z")
In the zombie thread which was closed, **Diogenes** opined that the derision cast upon “wiggers” comes from the fact that they’re “lampooning and parodying” black culture and that their affectation of this culture is actually offensive to blacks. This was in response to the notion that “wiggers” are by and large disliked because they’re seen as stooping to a lower level by emulating blacks. To **Diogenes,** I responded: There are certainly guys for whom the style is an affectation - but there are others for whom it is not. I’ve known white kids who have had rough lives and who feel like the gangsta culture is more in common with their life experiences than any other youth culture available to them, and who hang out with black gangsta-type kids and for whom the whole thing is not a parody, it’s their way of responding to their environment. They listen to the music, they wear the clothes, they talk the talk, and they walk the walk. And there are posers of all races too. I’ve known black kids from solid, suburban, middle-class backgrounds who affect the urban gangsta style - it’s a put-on for them, too. They’re not any more of an actual gangster than the white kid with the jersey and the sagging jeans. Having gone to a school in Southern Indiana where a variety of economic and social classes interacted, I can say for certain that the white kids who looked down on the “wiggers” didn’t do so because they thought they were parodying or insulting black culture. They looked down on them because “they’re trying to be like niggers,” plain and simple. And I overheard a lot of derision towards them for this reason. Trust me, a bunch of hardass farm kids sitting around at lunch making fun of the wiggers aren’t postulating theories about the lampooning and parodying of black culture. They’re muttering, “look at those guys, trying to be niggers.” So what sayest ye all? Do “wiggers” draw vitriol primarily because of their perceived step down to an inferior culture, or because their adoption of said culture is insincere and offensive? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/2 "2007-06-08T14:17:42Z")
Run of the Mill culture war tribal BS. It’s neither here nor there in reality. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/3 "2007-06-08T14:59:59Z")
People “hate” them? Me, I just find them funny. Not as funny as the Asian ones, though. They’re a hoot! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/4 "2007-06-08T15:07:59Z")
I thing “gangsta culture” is silly and annoying, period, no matter the what the race of the participant is. It’s just that white kids have less of an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/5 "2007-06-08T15:25:11Z")
Are white kids who act like “gangstas” the only ones who are called wiggers? Or are the ones who talk “black” also given that appellation? Because I’ve known white kids (and adults) who talk with a “blaccent” and AAVE. It wasn’t an affectation for them; they just grew up around lots of black people. Making fun of them is no different than making fun of black people who sound “white”. Both are wrong. However, if a person is consciously acting a certain way that belies their upbringing and background–trying hard to speak and dress in a certain style so as to be “cool”–then maybe they deserve ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/6 "2007-06-08T15:26:42Z")
Original thread, closed as zombie: [Do you consider “wigger” a racial slur?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=373701) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/7 "2007-06-08T15:27:33Z")
From the other thread: > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You skipped the most common reason people hate wiggers – that they’re putting on an obnoxious minstrel show which is insulting to blacks. They’re not acquiring the culture or “trying it on,” they’re parodying the culture. They’re lampooning it. They might as well be wearing blackface. Cite that this is the “most common reason”? I thought that a “wigger” by defintion was someone who was earnestly trying to take on AA culture. I’ve never heard the term used in that context. > [@](#): > > I rejct the suggestion that most people object to wiggers because they think the white kids are “lowering themselves” to the level of blacks. Most people object because it’s obnoxious and fake and affected and stupid and offensive to blacks. Then you’re objecting to something I never claimed. I never said “most” people use the term this way, simply that is one way. It is, however, the most common way I have heard people use the term. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/8 "2007-06-08T15:31:26Z")
BTW, the song [_Pretty Fly (for a White Guy)_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Fly_(for_a_White_Guy)) sums it up well: > [@](#): > > The song ridicules a “wannabe gangsta” (or “wigger”) who is immersed in hip-hop culture not because he truly loves it, but because it is trendy, makes him feel tough and makes it seem that he can get all the girls (“and all the girls say I’m pretty fly - for a white guy”). The song openly mocks the upper class suburban youths who listen to rap music for this reason. This certainly doesn’t sound like someone mocking “gangsta culture”. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/9 "2007-06-08T20:42:32Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] BTW, the song [_Pretty Fly (for a White Guy)_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Fly_(for_a_White_Guy)) sums it up well: This certainly doesn’t sound like someone mocking “gangsta culture”. [/QUOTE] It’s a wannabe, and it’s a wannabe who is aiming low. Who likes that? I’m sure I’ll get jumped on by using the word “low”, but let’s face it, the gangsta culture isn’t something the people who are actually PART of it are part of it voluntarily. They’re part of it because they’re stuck there. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/10 "2007-06-08T20:48:50Z")
I didn’t mean to imply that they were consciously ridiculing urban black subculture, but that their attempts to ape it result an _unintended_ mockery. It’s embarrassing. It makes me wince to see it. It’s like when Madonna talks with a fake British accent. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/11 "2007-06-08T20:52:30Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t mean to imply that they were consciously ridiculing urban black subculture, but that their attempts to ape it result an _unintended_ mockery. It’s embarrassing. It makes me wince to see it. It’s like when Madonna talks with a fake British accent. [/QUOTE] The word you’re looking for is “slumming”, which is the word I couldn’t think of when I made my post. :smack: Oh, and I always thought that it was unclear whether “wigger” was a contraction of “wannabe nigger” or “white nigger”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/12 "2007-06-08T20:53:14Z")
Broadly disdaining “wiggers” (hate the term) is racist and anti-individualistic, plain and simple. The basic tenet behind this is that people should be free to express themselves however they feel fit as long as it doesn’t harm others. It’s like slamming a black person for reading Shakespeare. Of course certain members of this nebulous subculture of white people **“acting like”** (note scare quotes in bold) black people may do things that are disrespectful, but that’s a problem to take up with that person and that action. It’s shameful that it is still considered transgressive to cross borderlines of traditional race behavior. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/13 "2007-06-08T20:59:19Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I didn’t mean to imply that they were consciously ridiculing urban black subculture, but that their attempts to ape it result an _unintended_ mockery. It’s embarrassing. It makes me wince to see it. It’s like when Madonna talks with a fake British accent. [/QUOTE] Well, that might be why Blacks don’t like them, but I don’t think that’s why many Whites “hate” them. I think it’s not unlike Whites who disapprove of other Whites dating or marrying Blacks. But it’s not like the whole “gangsta” persona is genuine in the first place. Who’s to say who is affecting something and who is not? ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/14 "2007-06-08T21:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] I thing “gangsta culture” is silly and annoying, period, no matter the what the race of the participant is. It’s just that white kids have less of an excuse. [/QUOTE] And it’s that sentiment that’s especially insulting to blacks - hence the OP’s correct interpretation of “wigger”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Hildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Johnny\_Hildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Hildo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/15 "2007-06-08T21:43:13Z")
I think one of the main reasons they’re so mocked is the general impression that most wiggers are middle-class suburban white kids who try to emulate the “street cred” thug culture, which would ironically eat them alive were they ever to be really exposed to it. See [Icy Hot Stuntaz](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=icy+hot+stuntaz) for an example. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/16 "2007-06-08T21:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=pizzabrat] And it’s that sentiment that’s especially insulting to blacks - hence the OP’s correct interpretation of “wigger”. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I was reading into this whole thing and thinking that the most insulting thing about it was that it was more ok to be into gangster culture if you are black than if you are white. One issue I’ve always had that has nothing to do with the OP really is the notion of ‘gangster’ culture. Hip Hop promotes gangster culture to a degree, but it promotes more ‘Thug’ culture. A thug is sort of a mindless ape that has nothing to manifest power with other than his fists. This is the sort of culture borne of 50 cent. A Gangster of course has responsibilities. This is what is promoted by Dr. Dre and Jay Z, and in it there are some nobler ideas of being loyal to your friends and taking care of your business. The problem is that most people do not understand the difference between a gangster and a thug. There is very little difference between a rich businessman and a gangster, but a wide gulf between him and a thug. If you want to see white gangster culture in all of it’s authenticity just look at Wall Street sometime. The thing that is most unfathomable to me is people who wear “G-Unit” clothes. It’s like, “Why are you wearing the colors if you’re not part of the set?”, in legit gangster culture what you wear has symbolism and meaning, If you got a beat down wearing G-Unit clothes right in front of .50 he wouldn’t lift a hand to help you. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/17 "2007-06-08T22:22:16Z")
I’d like to know why we look at the white version, the wigger, as a pathetic, loser poser. But, an identically acting (and that’s all it is, is acting) black man is seen as a frightening thug. My guess is that we expect more from the white kid. We see the black kid as doing what comes naturally for “them”, while the white kid is lowering himself and portraying some unnatural affectation. In reality, both are quite lame. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/18 "2007-06-08T22:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] I’d like to know why we look at the white version, the wigger, as a pathetic, loser poser. But, an identically acting (and that’s all it is, is acting) black man is seen as a frightening thug. [/quote] A poser is a poser is a poser. We generally refer to ‘wiggers’ as the posers. There are genuine white gangstas who do not come across as false at all. I think it is a matter of authenticity. People make fun of the wannabe gangsta black kid too. > [@](#): > > My guess is that we expect more from the white kid. We see the black kid as doing what comes naturally for “them”, while the white kid is lowering himself and portraying some unnatural affectation. Like I said, I have not noticed any undue respect given to the wannabe black kid either. A real gangster doesn’t go around talking about what a hustler he is. A real hustler doesn’t want you to think of him as a hustler, cuz then it’s harder hustle you. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/19 "2007-06-08T22:41:55Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] I’d like to know why we look at the white version, the wigger, as a pathetic, loser poser. But, an identically acting (and that’s all it is, is acting) black man is seen as a frightening thug. My guess is that we expect more from the white kid. We see the black kid as doing what comes naturally for “them”, while the white kid is lowering himself and portraying some unnatural affectation. In reality, both are quite lame. [/QUOTE] Well, an identically acting black man might actually be from the streets, whereas the kid from the suburbs knows nothing of that life. If the black man is also from the suburbs it is also laughable, but not as much as it is for the white kid. I’m not saying that there are no white people from the streets, because of course there are, but the suburban kids look like idiots when they try to affect that look. I think it is just that we assume there are more blacks from the street than whites. This may be a racist assumption, but I don’t think it has anything to do with whether or not Icy Hot Stuntaz are dillholes. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256/20 "2007-06-08T22:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=Indygrrl] I’m not saying that there are no white people from the streets, because of course there are, but the suburban kids look like idiots when they try to affect that look. [/QUOTE] Why? Edit: Assuming you mean moreso than people who are actually from the streets who affect that look. And it’s all affectation no who you’re talking about. Nobody’s born into an over-sized jersey, and colorful football caps aren’t some traditional black custom. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-hate-wiggers/407256.md?page=2)