# Why do people have children? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 28, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699 "2003-11-28T07:59:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/41 "2003-11-30T15:41:17Z")
There are several reasons why I’d like to have kids. Children are fascinating little critters. I really enjoy being around them. As **Mangetout** pointed out, you get to watch an infant grow and learn and become her own person. That’s pretty damn cool. My husband would be an amazing father, and I think I’d make a darn good mom. I think my life would be richer and more fulfilling for having kids. OTOH, if you don’t want kids, no skin off my nose. The way I see it, parents are a bit like nurses. Society needs nurses; they do a difficult and important job; but not everybody wants to be a nurse and that’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/42 "2003-11-30T16:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*The point i was trying to make is I don’t understand _why_ it’s a major milestone. I get that I should be happy they’re happy, that’s not the problem. I don’t get _why_ they’re happy. To me the thought of having a child is so catastrophic that it’s hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that for somebody else it’s a joyous occasion. I was trying to explain the massive disconnect I feel from other people on the issue. \*\* I understood that, but it’s hard for me to comprehend why you couldn’t understand why others might feel that way. There are many accomplishments and events we celebrate as a society, and this is among the most common. It almost smacks, to me, of a willful refusal to acknowledge another’s happiness over children, of a privileging of your own “disconnect” as being the genuinely rational way to feel. I don’t want a law degree–but I celebrate my friends’ graduation from law school. I don’t want more than one child–in fact, I cannot even fathom the thought process that would bring me to have another–but I can express congratulations at the birth of my friends’ sixth and the happiness that they feel. I don’t celebrate Sukkot, but I am gratified by the joy of family connectedness it affords my jewish friends. I sure understand why one might buy baby gifts or throw a shower for new parents. Even someone who hate kids could surely recognize that a new baby brings big changes to the household, changes that can be eased by a thoughtful gesture. Hell, we send dinner for a funeral–it doesn’t have to be an occasion for celebration to comprehend why we reach out to people when their lives change. I guess I am saying that I’m pleased you’ve recognized your own goals and desires when it comes to your family, but your wide-eyed incomprehension at others’ goals seems disingenuous to me. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/43 "2003-11-30T16:21:41Z")
> [@](#): > > The point i was trying to make is I don’t understand why it’s a major milestone. Well, my life certainly hasn’t been the same since–it’s far more life-changing than high school graduation. If you don’t want kids, great, don’t have any, but lots of us enjoy it. Perhaps you should think of it the way I think of shrimp, or peanut butter. I hate shrimp, my husband loves them. I don’t try to dissuade him. Then, my 3-yo daughter is allergic to nuts. I live my life in a nut-induced paranoia, especially at potlucks, where I taste-test everything. Lots of people, however, love peanut butter and won’t live without it. I love nuts myself, but keep them away from my kid, or disaster ensues! But I do not try to tell people not to eat nuts, or wonder who in their right mind would eat them. One man’s meat, after all… On preview, Cranky has said it better. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/44 "2003-11-30T16:56:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\* I don’t understand why I’m supposed to congratulate them or be happy for them when they do have children. \*\* You’re kidding, right? Does that mean someone who is lifelong celibate/single can’t understand why they are “supposed” to be happy or congratulate a couple on their wedding? Are you only “happy” for events in people’s lives that you can truly relate to? I can’t, for the life of me, fathom the notion that one has to come up with a rationale to join in the happiness of others…even if the **reason** for their happiness is not part of your point of view. That seems sad. ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/45 "2003-11-30T17:11:39Z")
Life is always throwing weird shit at you. Shortly after starting this post, an ex-boyfriend of mine who have not spoken with for a year called me. He was always like me on the subject of kids. To make a long story short, he left our relationship to marry a friend of 25 years who had been through a divorce and had 4 boys she needed help raising. For this past year I was wondering about him, how he was doing with the whole daddy business. I am happy to report that he finds his life very rewarding and challenging in ways he didn’t know were there. But he also did not recommend having kids. His comment was, “You’re a smart girl, and you know I have always been a :wally.” Damn, I love people that can laugh at themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/46 "2003-11-30T18:15:18Z")
Back to the OP. If you do not breed you do not pass on your genes; you are a failure. Your genes end with you. No ifs, no buts. It’s harsh but the consequence of not breeding is that someone or something else inherits the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/47 "2003-11-30T18:45:16Z")
Knowledge is much more valuable to pass on than genes. That is what sets us apart from the animals, the ability to reason. If you haven’t learned anything and shared that with others, that makes you a failure. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/48 "2003-11-30T18:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by qts \* > \*\*Back to the OP. If you do not breed you do not pass on your genes; you are a failure. Your genes end with you. > > No ifs, no buts. > > It’s harsh but the consequence of not breeding is that someone or something else inherits the Earth. \*\* That’s assuming that your entire purpose on earth is to pass on your genes. Maybe it is for you, but for a lot of other people, there’s a lot more to life then that. _Wonders how many people who changed history never had childern and thus, despite their accomplisments, are failures_ ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/49 "2003-11-30T19:22:45Z")
As has already been said early on here (but it bears repeating), there are no truly logical reasons for wanting to have children, just as there are no really logical reasons for _not_ wanting to have children. Note that the “reasons” given for not having kids in the OP have either been debunked, or are matters of choice/opinion. That doesn’t mean that either choice is invalid. That simply means that finding logical reasons for either choice is an exercise in futility. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sweetfreak \* > **So far, from what I have read, the only reason people have children is because it makes them happy or seems to fill a hole in their life.** That’s a pretty gross overgeneralization. Even going only on the posts before this response, you’ve gotten some pretty important thoughts on people who love having kids, and they go far deeper than what you say here. I’d encourage you to go back and re-read **Mangeout** and **Jonathan Chance** ’s early thoughts. I would hope you could get a little more out of this, if you’re truly curious about your question. You’ve certainly been given more to go on. Speaking for myself, I didn’t have any “holes” in my life before I had kids. I was pretty happy with myself, my marriage, my life. However, my children have _added_ dramatically. What was already a happy life has become richly rewarding and more meaningful to me. As **Mangeout** said, I’m actively participating in the creation and forming of three new lives, and each one is unique. It’s pretty special. Mind you, it’s not the only special thing in my life. My relationship with my wife has been going strong for fourteen years now, and I find that extremely rewarding. I enjoy writing, and I like to draw now and again. I have friends literally around the world. I live a pretty good life, all told, and my kids are an important part of it. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sweetfreak \* > **Knowledge is much more valuable to pass on than genes. > That is what sets us apart from the animals, the ability to reason. > If you haven’t learned anything and shared that with others, that makes you a failure.** Also a very important part of raising a child. I don’t agree with **qts** ’ post about being a “failure” if you don’t pass on your genes, but if you have kids, you’re certainly a failure as a parent if you don’t pass on at least some of what you’ve learned to them. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by pepperlandgirl_ > **The point i was trying to make is I don’t understand why it’s a major milestone. I get that I should be happy they’re happy, that’s not the problem. I don’t get why they’re happy. To me the thought of having a child is so catastrophic that it’s hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that for somebody else it’s a joyous occasion.** **pepperlandgirl** , why do you _have_ to understand it? Clearly, whoever you’re talking about doesn’t share your feeling that it’s “catastrophic.” Can’t you simply be happy for them because they’re happy? Do your friends have to understand everything that makes you happy to be happy for you? To me, the mark of a good friend is someone who can simply be happy because I’m happy… they don’t have to understand why. Case in point, my wife and I have three kids, and we’ve decided that we’re done. Three is it, and we (I) have taken measures which pretty much ensure this. My boss at work, also a good friend, comes from a large family (10 siblings, I believe), and she wants a large family of her own, too. She’s well on her way, with four children so far, and trying for another. Personally, for me, I think five would be too many. However, she finds it very rewarding, and I’ll be happy for her when she gets pregnant again. It’s what _she_ wants, and I don’t have to understand the ins and outs of it to be happy for her. I think I’d be miserable in such a situation, but I’m still happy for her about it. Sometimes, people have big differences in how they see the world. They’re wired differently, or their opinions on some things are just polar opposites. That doesn’t mean anything is “wrong” with anyone in these situations, it simply means they have different goals and opinions. Personally, I don’t see why anyone should have to justify the choice to have kids, or the choice to _not_ have kids. It’s like trying to find logical reasons for pure faith (or the lack thereof): logic simply doesn’t map to these things. I wish people would just accept these choices, and move on. It’s what I try to do, and it makes me pretty happy. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/50 "2003-11-30T19:45:13Z")
**hpl** Changing history - **everything** - is secondary to passing on your genes, directly or indirectly. What would happen if nobody procreated? Another species would inherit the Earth. Not humans. The Earth would continue. This is actually Darwin’s Natural Selection in action - those who don’t want to pass on their genes die out, leaving the field for those of us who do. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/51 "2003-11-30T19:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by qts \* > \*\ ***hpl** Changing history - **everything** - is secondary to passing on your genes, directly or indirectly. What would happen if nobody procreated? Another species would inherit the Earth. Not humans. The Earth would continue. This is actually Darwin’s Natural Selection in action - those who don’t want to pass on their genes die out, leaving the field for those of us who do. \*\* Then again, if we all reproduced, then diease and hunger would be rampant…We are not talking null-sum here. We are talking about some people not having childern/some people having childern and to label those who don’t a failure is disigenius. Some people have benefited the world far more through their works then they could ever hope to do with their genes. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/52 "2003-11-30T19:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > pepperlandgirl, why do you have to understand it? Clearly, whoever you’re talking about doesn’t share your feeling that it’s “catastrophic.” Can’t you simply be happy for them because they’re happy? Do your friends have to understand everything that makes you happy to be happy for you? To me, the mark of a good friend is someone who can simply be happy because I’m happy… they don’t have to understand why. It’s not like I criticize them or act in anyway inappropriately to them. Jesus, people, I’m not some cruel monster who mocks my friends for wanting kids and hope bad things happen to them. Having a kid isn’t like liking shrimp or peanuts, or getting a law degree. As mentioned above, there is a biological need to have children. I’m assuming that need is what is behind much of the desire to have children. So people go along, and when the time is right (or not) have a kid, and they’re very happy because they always wanted a kid and there’s much celebration. Wonderful. My point is that I don’t feel inside of me whatever is creating that desire, in fact, I feel horror at having a child. Lots of horror. I’m not saying “Explain why I have to be a good person and supportive of my friends”, I’m saying “where does this desire come from and why don’t I have it?” It seems that my first post is upsetting those with children and I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it that way. But there’s people in the world who feel it’s a great tragedy to not have children and I have _no idea where they are coming from_ and it bothers me that I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/53 "2003-11-30T20:34:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*My point is that I don’t feel inside of me whatever is creating that desire, in fact, I feel horror at having a child. Lots of horror. > > \ > > But there’s people in the world who feel it’s a great tragedy to not have children and I have _no idea where they are coming from_ and it bothers me that I don’t know. \*\* Not to put too fine a point on it, but _why_ does it bother you so much? Do you think there’s something wrong with you, that you don’t share their feelings? For the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you. I don’t think you do either. Given your feelings of “horror” towards the idea of having a child, and your opinion that it is an event of “catastrophic” proportions, have you considered the idea that you _can’t_ understand why some would take joy in it? As I said earlier, it’s not something that can be parsed logically. If you don’t feel it… well, you just don’t feel it. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/54 "2003-11-30T20:49:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\* It seems that my first post is upsetting those with children and I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it that way. But there’s people in the world who feel it’s a great tragedy to not have children and I have _no idea where they are coming from_ and it bothers me that I don’t know. \*\* The “upsetting” (although I wouldn’t use that phrasing) thing about your first post has **nothing** to do with having children. Read that again. **Nothing** When you say > [@](#): > > I don’t understand why I’m supposed to congratulate them or be happy for them when they do have children. It sounds like it is some kind of imposition upon you to appreciate and be happy for someone’s joy…whatever the reason for their joy. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/55 "2003-11-30T21:26:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to put too fine a point on it, but why does it bother you so much? Do you think there’s something wrong with you, that you don’t share their feelings? > > For the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you. I don’t think you do either. It might simply be because women are _supposed_ to want children, and though I don’t agree with that, and you’re right, I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with me, it doesn’t change the fact that there’s…the expectation. Unfortunately, the environment on the SDMB (thoughtful, intelligent discussions and a certain understanding and tolerance) is not the environment most of us live in IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/56 "2003-11-30T21:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*It might simply be because women are _supposed_ to want children, and though I don’t agree with that, and you’re right, I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with me, it doesn’t change the fact that there’s…the expectation. \*\* I guess I see what you mean… I’ve just known so many women that don’t want kids that I’ve been over that particular generalization for some time. 🙂 It’s the expectation that’s wrong… though the shift in perception has been relatively recent, so hopefully we just need to give people time to adjust. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/57 "2003-11-30T22:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _HPL wrote_ > Then again, if we all reproduced, then disease and hunger would be rampant… Cite, please. And you’re axiomatically wrong anyhow: if each couple were to produce two children, the population would remain static over the long term, absent accidents. (In point of fact, each couple needs to produce a little more than that to cope with accidents.) BTW I’ll cite Darwin on my side. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/58 "2003-11-30T23:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by qts \* > \*\*Cite, please. And you’re axiomatically wrong anyhow: if each couple were to produce two children, the population would remain static over the long term, absent accidents. (In point of fact, each couple needs to produce a little more than that to cope with accidents.) BTW I’ll cite Darwin on my side. \*\* How about the third world, where you have an awful lot of people having an awful lot of kids and have large problems with population? Not that it matters, because I said because, we are not talking null-sum. It’s a given that some people are going to breed in any human system. With that out the way, the fact you breed or did not breed can be far less important then what you contributed to the world by your actions. Thus, you cannot call someone a failure because they did not breed if they helped the spieces in some other way, even in a small way. There is more then that then passing on genes. ---
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/59 "2003-12-01T00:20:09Z")
The OP asks: Why do people have children? The answer: Just to annoy me. Here I am with friends in a nice bar or an upscale restaurant where all the clients are grown-ups. Then these yuppie parents show up with a cart and two or three kids that start crying and shouting and running around, as if they were in their private backyard or in Chuckee Cheese. How many times I have pulled a $20 bill and gone to these parents, asking them to get a darned baby sitter if they have to show up in that bar or restaurant. These parents expect a no-smoking section, but fail to see the need for no-children section. Try catching a long flight with bunch of these kids screaming for 5 hours through the flight. Why don’t the airlines put these people and their kids at the back of the plane, where the smokers used to be seated long time ago, when smoking was still allowed in airplanes. I can never go to my community swimming pull at weekends because of the screaming infestation. I finally found a park where I can go for a picnic without a bunch of kids running around and screaming. This park does not let in anyone under the age of 18 – and that is wonderful. Reason: The park is full of wild mountain lions, and some heads of kids were chopped off a while back by the lions. Therefore, my advice is not to have any children because your kids bother those of us who don’t want them around. And if you insist on having them, please either hide them, or take them somewhere in their own elements. Just don’t insist on pushing them on my face. May be in my next life, I’ll be a mountain lion. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699/60 "2003-12-01T01:06:08Z")
news flash! A public restaurant and park is not “shoving them in your face”. Please explain why you think children should be kept out of wherever you happen to be. Should there be no-children areas? Think that would go over well? Should there also be no Wake Up Call areas? If you could explain in more detail why children bother you so I would be interested hearing it. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-have-children/215699.md?page=4)