# Why do people in the US have such a distrust of the UN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106 "2012-12-05T19:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/41 "2012-12-05T23:09:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not really. As mentioned, the UN General Assembly has a good number of members who represent shithole dictatorships, some of which are openly hostile to the US and its interests. So I would be a lot more suspicious of them than of Congress. I didn’t vote for Obama and the Democrats, but at least they don’t wind up their deliberations by chanting “death to the United States”. > > As far as I know. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not like the GA didn’t start out that way - unless you consider Stalinist Russia a democracy. And, as mentioned, the GA does not have a lot of power, and we have veto power in the SC. But I think you summarize the problem nicely - how dare any other country be hostile to US interests! We clearly are perfect, and have never done anything worthy of such disdain. Not that there aren’t asshole countries, but dealing with countries hostile to our interests (because the conflict with theirs) is dealing with reality. Hell, we send our jobs to one such country. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/42 "2012-12-05T23:15:54Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I mean, how’s this going to work? They’re not going to send blue-helmeted troops into the U.S. to enforce a hypothetical treaty’s hypothetical edicts. Some treaties (e.g. a nuclear arms limitation treaty) can be implemented on our side by executive action alone; others (e.g. the take-your-guns-away treaty or the force-your-homeschooled-kids-to-eat-vegetarian-meals treaty) would require Congressional legislation to implement. And Congress could pass those sorts of laws anyway, if that was so inclined. I suspect most people don’t understand how UN military forces work, even for the few cases they even fight and aren’t just sitting there to discourage military action by the conflicting states. Except for the blue helmets, they are wearing the uniforms of their countries, and while nominally under command of the UN commander in the field, you can be damn sure they aren’t going to do anything rash. Peacekeepers from Trinidad, say, under UN command are even less likely to attack the US than plain old soldiers from Trinidad. Plus there are usually lots of countries. When I was in the Congo the UN forces consisted of troops from Canada, India, Ethiopia, Nigeria, and Ireland. At least they were ones stationed in Leopoldville. Clearly a conspiracy waiting to happen! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/43 "2012-12-05T23:25:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It’s not like the GA didn’t start out that way - unless you consider Stalinist Russia a democracy. And, as mentioned, the GA does not have a lot of power, and we have veto power in the SC. > > But I think you summarize the problem nicely - how dare any other country be hostile to US interests! We clearly are perfect, and have never done anything worthy of such disdain. Not that there aren’t asshole countries, but dealing with countries hostile to our interests (because the conflict with theirs) is dealing with reality. Hell, we send our jobs to one such country. I think the point is that they can “dare” all they want, and we can be distrustful of them as often as they are. Even if we can just agree to disagree, there is no reason to be supportive of countries who are hostile to our interests. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/44 "2012-12-05T23:45:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …there is no reason to be supportive of countries who are hostile to our interests. What does that mean? “Be supportive” how? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/45 "2012-12-05T23:50:09Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > What does that mean? “Be supportive” how? I should have said supportive of an institution (ie, the UN) when it a large of number of member states are hostile to our interests. And I don’t necessarily see China as always been hostile to our interests. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/46 "2012-12-05T23:59:46Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Because the UN is run by it’s member states, the vast majority of which are shithole third world countries where **corruption and nepotism are the rule of the day**. So just like the U.S.A. then. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/47 "2012-12-06T00:08:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It doesn’t. It happens after the deliberations of one of the member states of the UN General Assembly. No, you don’t need a cite for that. This being Great Debates, I actually _would_ like a cite for that. Unless of course by “No, you don’t need a cite for that.” you mean that you don’t _have_ one. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/48 "2012-12-06T01:01:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I should have said supportive of an institution (ie, the UN) when it a large of number of member states are hostile to our interests. The great thing about the institution, from the American POV, is that we can often use it to further _our_ interests, when they are common interests with some other countries, and it suits us, but we can also pretty much ignore it when we want to. What’s the downside, really, in practice? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/49 "2012-12-06T01:06:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I should have said supportive of an institution (ie, the UN) when it a large of number of member states are hostile to our interests. > > And I don’t necessarily see China as always been hostile to our interests. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they aren’t. I’m supportive of the House of Representatives even though over half the members are hostile to my interests. The countries are there, like it or not, so a place to talk is good. I’m not in favor of letting countries with horrible human rights records onto human rights commissions, though. As for China, they are far more hostile than some tinpot dictatorship. None of them has sent us poisoned toothpaste. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/50 "2012-12-06T02:31:32Z")
The UN is no moral authority, it’s decisions are based on the votes of many nations who have their own agendas. The United States mistrusts outside interference in the same way all nations do on some level. Smaller nations seeking an international voice though, say Togo, have more power speaking in the UN than outside of it and are more likely to see direct benefits so are more likely to be enthusiastic about it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/51 "2012-12-06T03:02:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The UN is no moral authority, it’s decisions are based on the votes of many nations who have their own agendas. Some might say that _is_ its authority. Do you find any moral authority in any voting system anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/52 "2012-12-06T03:06:13Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Do you find any moral authority in any voting system anywhere? What’s the difference? Well, both Cuba and Canada have voting systems but I think Canada’s has more moral authority and more legitimacy. I also will freely admit that I think anyone who disagrees is a moron, an asshole or both. ---
**Author:** ![Mackydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Mackydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mackydude)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/53 "2012-12-06T03:11:05Z")
Most people I know, and myself personally, don’t really dislike the UN. In fact, I could care less about what they do. It’s more that they’re so weak and hold no sway that what they do matters little to me. When a country does something they disagree with they usually just say “no, bad [insert country here, I’ll say Iran for the sake of example] don’t do that”. There has never been a multinational organization of countries that holds any real power (I’m talking non-military, so excluding NATO). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/54 "2012-12-06T03:12:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Well, both Cuba and Canada have voting systems but I think Canada’s has more moral authority and more legitimacy. Sure. But **Sitnam** seemed to be saying that the UN lacked moral authority _because_ its decisions were based on votes by members each with their own interests. As if voting was a bad way for a diverse group to come to a decision. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/55 "2012-12-06T03:31:09Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Sure. But **Sitnam** seemed to be saying that the UN lacked moral authority _because_ its decisions were based on votes by members each with their own interests. As if voting was a bad way for a diverse group to come to a decision. I didn’t mean to imply that. There’s nothing wrong with voting. Nations that can afford to go their own way regardless of world opinion are more likely to look on any organization of world opinion claiming any kind of authority with some disdain. I’m sure Russians, Chinese and French hold the UN in lower regard than we do. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/56 "2012-12-06T04:03:10Z")
> [@Mackydude](#): > > Most people I know, and myself personally, don’t really dislike the UN. In fact, I could care less about what they do. It’s more that they’re so weak and hold no sway that what they do matters little to me. When a country does something they disagree with they usually just say “no, bad [insert country here, I’ll say Iran for the sake of example] don’t do that”. > > There has never been a multinational organization of countries that holds any real power (I’m talking non-military, so excluding NATO). Right, the “I am sending you a strongly-worded letter ordering you to stop the genocide right now, or I shall be forced to send you another letter” syndrome. I think it may be a case where 60-80% of the US understand that it’s a pretty ineffectual organization for anything other than some talking and the occasional bit of aid. But because it is seen as largely ineffectual and corrupt, they’re really not going to spend a lot of energy arguing against the significant minority who find more sinister motives. So it may end up sounding worse than it is, because only one side is really bothering with any rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/57 "2012-12-06T04:05:31Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > Right, the “I am sending you a strongly-worded letter ordering you to stop the genocide right now, or I shall be forced to send you another letter” syndrome. _“Hans Brix, why you bust my balls?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/58 "2012-12-06T04:22:34Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > I think it may be a case where 60-80% of the US understand that it’s a pretty ineffectual organization for anything other than some talking and the occasional bit of aid. It’s rather more than an occasional bit of aid. True, the UN doesn’t have a great track record in stopping actual wars. But in humanitarian relief, economic development, support of emergent democracy, environmental policy, and public health, there are some real achievements that can be credited at least in part to the scope and coordination of United Nations efforts. Smallpox was eradicated, and polio is on the way out, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Anchuldigs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anchuldigs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anchuldigs)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/59 "2012-12-06T04:25:10Z")
Here is an American who partly doesn’t like the UN. I love WHO, WFP etc… I think they’re super fly and I’m glad that we fund them. But I don’t like that the UN seems to put the crazy racist asshole countries on the same moral plane as decent countries. By belonging to an organization that includes countries like Iran, Sudan, and North Korea, we are legitimizing them to a small degree. It’s kind of like when a news organization interviews the Chief of the Scotland Yard and an IRA terrorist. Putting the 2 in the same news report sends a message that the two are morally similar. They’re not. One targets innocent civilians the other doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106/60 "2012-12-06T05:09:04Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > Right, the “I am sending you a strongly-worded letter ordering you to stop the genocide right now, or I shall be forced to send you another letter” syndrome. > > I think it may be a case where 60-80% of the US understand that it’s a pretty ineffectual organization for anything other than some talking and the occasional bit of aid. But because it is seen as largely ineffectual and corrupt, they’re really not going to spend a lot of energy arguing against the significant minority who find more sinister motives. > > So it may end up sounding worse than it is, because only one side is really bothering with any rhetoric. Tell you what though, the Ruskies were on their period in 1950 when they boycotted the UN so United Nations Security Council Resolution 84 passed. You’ll never see that mistake made again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-in-the-us-have-such-a-distrust-of-the-un/643106.md?page=4)