# Why do people insist that the market will produce new jobs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-insist-that-the-market-will-produce-new-jobs/477216 "2008-12-15T06:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-insist-that-the-market-will-produce-new-jobs/477216/221 "2008-12-25T05:51:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Assuming this Popular Mechanics fantasy comes true, we’ll need far more people employed in manufacturing, sales, and warehousing, since the price of transportation will plummet, making it more economical to transport goods, and lowering their price. We’re not talking about a “Popular Mechanics fantasy” - this is official DoD plans, to have 33% of their vehicles autonomous by 2015. That means they plan to have Humvees that will be able to drive by themselves in any urban or rural environment to a specific location. They want to be able to transport supplies to troops in combat situations without risking any additional personnel, or send in a vehicle to rescue them. This applies directly to the business models of UPS, FedEx and the USPS. > [@](#): > > We’ll need more packaging, so jobs there. Packaging? Packaging is one of the most automated parts of the production process. Most small electronic products are in plastic [“clamshell” cases](http://www.wikihow.com/Open-Rigid-Plastic-Clamshell-Packages-Safely) because the assembly line drops the product into one half, then the other half is lowered over it and the whole thing heat welded. No humans required. > [@](#): > > We’ll need more infrastructure, and that’s more construction jobs. What’s so special about construction that makes you think it won’t be roboticized? I’ve mentioned how “tilt-up” buildings can be assembled in days. Modern highway bridges are made of pre-cast concrete assemblies, trucked to the location. All of these techniques have been created to reduce the amount of human labor needed. > [@](#): > > I ask you again; If jobs aren’t replaced when automation takes them away, why is unemployment not 90%? Strawman. Where did you get your 90% number? Point out where in my OP I mentioned that, or any number. The move to fully autonomous machinery has happened far too recently to cause that large of a drop - yet. The trend to replace _service_ jobs with automation only goes as far back as the popularity of the web, or ATMs. What I’ve been talking about is how when agriculture was automated, factory jobs appeared. When factory jobs started getting automated out of existence (coupled with outsourcing/off-shoring) we were told not to worry, that we’d all have “service” jobs. But the difference this time is that all the service jobs are being automated as thoroughly as the factory ones and are not going to be able to supply jobs for all the displaced factory workers, unlike the move from farm to factory. > [@](#): > > Like all government jobs? My sister works 32 hours a week and makes over $50,000, with 6 weeks of vacation and sweet benefits. She’s been working there for 3 months, so this is no veteran employee with a lot of seniority. ALL government workers here work less than 40 hours a week, as well as in many quasigovernmental organizations, like the post office. Teachers - on the books - work fewer than 40 hours a week. My heart bleeds. > > Some people are stuck in bad jobs, of that I have no doubt. Would you please remind me of the time when that _wasn’t_ true? This is hilarious! You mention three union occupations! And you have absolutely no apparent awareness of how bizarre your examples are! Wow! > [@](#): > > You can whine all you want about the numbers being cooked. Fine. Let’s assume that’s true. \*\*They still do not explain why the unemployment rate isn’t 90%. \*\* But it does help to explain why so many are not getting full employment they desire. Why so many are not working in the fields for which they trained. Why so many recent college graduates, even during better economic times, are stuck living with their parents after graduation. > [@](#): > > Almost all jobs have been eliminated from existence - and yet, we aren’t all unemployed. Re-read the OP if you think I said anything like that, and quote me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-insist-that-the-market-will-produce-new-jobs/477216.md?page=11)