# Why do people keep confusing victim and hero? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373 "2014-10-15T03:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/21 "2014-10-15T13:57:23Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > This drives me crazy, too. I’ve been known to yell “Are you telling me there isn’t one guy in the entire military who hides behind a table whenever shots are fired???” at the TV. I’m guessing that hiding behind a table is a a smarter thing to do than stand out in the open. That situation may not be a test of cowardliness or heroism. Also, if you consider the US military in your scenario, it is a volunteer organization. So like the positions of fireman, police, military, and hazardous vocations I would think that it takes some bravery to even take on those roles. Those roles are known to put people in dangerous and possibly life threatening situations. That brings up the question is bravery equated with heroism? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/22 "2014-10-15T14:48:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Why not both? In what way is it cowardice? Because these same guys seem to be ready to kill and be killed for something they believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/23 "2014-10-15T14:57:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Bullying is a form of cowardice. It’s beating up on someone who can’t fight back. > > Executing a hostage, who has no way to defend himself, is a cowardly act. It’s the opposite of conventional valor in warfare. > > (I don’t extend this to judicial execution of a convict…but I’m opposed to that practice. I don’t hold it to be cowardly, just unnecessary.) I don’t really agree. First of all, what is it about the execution of, say, a man convicted and sentenced to death in the US, that makes it less cowardly than executing hostages for, in the eyes of the executioner, a capital crime? If there is any difference, it is that an executioner in the US is “only doing [their] job” or “just following orders”. If we’re talking about cowardice and bravery, the execution of a hostage is far less of a “safe” course of action. My main disagreement, though, is with “no way to defend himself” part. I suppose you might call it more brave to offer someone a chance to defend themselves, but that’s blurring the lines between bravery and stupidity. No one, good or bad, cowardly or brave, is expected to make everything a “fair” fight. To me, that implies a lack of conviction. If you think someone deserves to die for a crime and _must_ be killed, why would you leave it to chance? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/24 "2014-10-15T15:05:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Or, to put it another way (and I may have read these words on this board), cowards don’t sign their names. Batman wears a mask, the fuckin coward. I don’t think maintaining anonymty and denying any legitmacy or authority of those you fight against is cowardice. They are ntot tryng to work within the system. They are trying to tear it down ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/25 "2014-10-15T15:09:43Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > You know, the old, “potato, potato” reference just doesn’t work on a message board :eek: > > It’s simply a subjective question. I would call ANYONE who attacks an unsuspecting or defenseless person a “coward” whether they’re a terrorist or a common street thug. What abotth US military drone strikes. Are we cowards? > [@](#): > > I would also call anyone who raises awareness of an evil person or organization (anyone like, for instance, a VICTIM, of some crime of that organization) a “hero”. So if theyaise awareness (whether they wanted to or not) they are heroes? > [@](#): > > That’s just my particular view. You don’t have to share it. But you’re not making any sense. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/26 "2014-10-15T15:11:57Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Wow, the OP is a hero for creating this thread! > > And I know what you mean, but I don’t think anything will change. Also when people refer to a suicide as cowardly. Have these people never had any experience with depression? The survival instinc is powerful and not easily overcome for most people. Otherwise most of us would never make it through our teen angst years. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/27 "2014-10-15T15:15:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because it makes for better propaganda to call people doing something you don’t like or otherwise wish to portray in a bad light “cowards”. If your guys blindside an enemy it’s a “clever ambush”; if the other guys do it then it’s a “cowardly sneak attack”. > > The problem of course is that while calling enemies cowards makes for good propaganda it makes for bad strategy once people buy into the propaganda and assume that the “cowards” in question will _in fact_ act cowardly. We do this in previous wars. Many vietnam vets came back with antipathy towards their enemy but they did not try to paint them as cowards. What valor or honor is there in fighting (and in sme cases dying) against cowards. I would rather be killed by a Klingon than a Ferengi. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/28 "2014-10-15T15:46:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > In what way is it cowardice? Because these same guys seem to be ready to kill and be killed for something they believe in. I’m trying to figure out how killing a bound news reporter has anything to do with a willingness to fight and die. Taking out your frustrations on somebody who is neither your enemy nor capable of defending themselves sounds like a damn good example of cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/29 "2014-10-15T16:26:05Z")
BubbaDog: I’m trying to figure out how killing a bound news reporter has anything to do with a willingness to fight and die. Taking out your frustrations on somebody who is neither your enemy nor capable of defending themselves sounds like a damn good example of cowardice. [/QUOTE] Maybe so, if we’d any reason to believe that the job duties of the executioner is merely to (a) be a propagandist, and then (b) execute someone, and that there’s some kind of limited membership deal whereby that’s all he’s willing to do or likely to be asked or ordered to do, maybe. But then you’ll have to agree we’d have to similarly categorize all our interrogators, torturers, propagandists and executioners (whether they’re doing it merely because ordered or as volunteer and/or whether they derive any satisfaction out of it as a job well done). ---
**Author:** ![JesterX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JesterX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JesterX)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/30 "2014-10-15T17:14:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > What abotth US military drone strikes. Are we cowards? Yes. Although I agreed with the drone strikes closer to 9/11 because many of the conspirators and supporters were still at large and thought they were safe in Yemen, Pakistan, and other countries. I stopped supporting them about 2005-2006. It’s just raining down death on defenseless people who, in many cases, we’re not even sure if they were actual terrorists. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So if theyaise awareness (whether they wanted to or not) they are heroes? To an extent. I would consider the victims of 9/11 heroes. Their deaths opened our eyes to the murderous determination of Al queda. I would also call the murdered journalists heroes because they did the same for isis. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But you’re not making any sense. There’s a difference between something “not making any sense” to you, and you just disagreeing with it. You’re confusing the two. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/31 "2014-10-15T17:40:25Z")
Personally, I’d like to consider that a victim has things done to them, while a hero actively does things to others. With cowards, they flee from conflict, while evil people perpetuates it. Its not cowardly to kill yourself in a plane crash to avoid prosecution if that was the only way they could have flew planes into buildings. I’m sure they’d be fine if other people did it and they stayed alive to fight ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/32 "2014-10-15T19:57:02Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Wow, the OP is a hero for creating this thread! > > And I know what you mean, but I don’t think anything will change. Also when people refer to a suicide as cowardly. Have these people never had any experience with depression? Only cowards are depressed. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/33 "2014-10-15T20:36:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The survival instinc is powerful and not easily overcome for most people. Otherwise most of us would never make it through our teen angst years. If you’re referring to the last part, it’s the fact that these people seem to think that suicide is a completely rational act, and therefore the person was completely aware that others would be hurt by it. It’s not and often they aren’t. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Only cowards are depressed. Even the Scottish ones? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/34 "2014-10-15T21:05:36Z")
Someone cut me off on the freeway today. I feel like such a hero!! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/35 "2014-10-15T21:08:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Someone cut me off on the freeway today. I feel like such a hero!! OMG!!! Are you alright?! That’s horrible. And you’re still able to sit there and post?! You are, indeed, a hero!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/36 "2014-10-15T21:32:47Z")
Heroes are admirable people. Victims are people that Life has fXXked over. Guess which one we have more of? So, confusion. folks don’t recognize a hero when they see one. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/37 "2014-10-15T21:39:10Z")
OP I agree also. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/38 "2014-10-15T23:52:50Z")
In this case, I agree “hero” is not the best term. But there are many places where a victim is a hero just for be able to put up with what happened to them. Generally speaking, this applies to the people who go through trauma but then come out the other end. They could have given up on life, but they didn’t. I do think that is still heroic. I’m not sure there is a good word for what these people are, though. Victim doesn’t express the honor to these people. Martyr is close, but still not quite right. One last thing: I can see an idea that reporters are heroes, but it would have nothing to do with them being victims. It would be because they chose to put themselves in danger in order to pursue a just cause. But they also have to be actually needed for that cause. But the reporter who escapes unharmed but still risked everything is still just as much a hero. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/39 "2014-10-16T00:05:30Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > To an extent. I would consider the victims of 9/11 heroes. Their deaths opened our eyes to the murderous determination of Al queda. I would also call the murdered journalists heroes because they did the same for isis. Forgive me, but this is INSANE. and the exact problem the OP is talking about. How in the world can anyone become a hero by not doing anything? People become heroes because they ACTED heroically. They found themselves in an extraordinary situation where someone was in danger and they chose a course of action. If I’m snoozing on a plane at some terrorist blows it out of the sky, how the fuck am I a hero? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373/40 "2014-10-16T00:18:33Z")
> [@JesterX](#): > > To an extent. I would consider the victims of 9/11 heroes. Their deaths opened our eyes to the murderous determination of Al queda. I would also call the murdered journalists heroes because they did the same for isis. Isn’t that more a martyr? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-keep-confusing-victim-and-hero/701373.md?page=3)