# Why do people of faith not pray for their enemies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153 "2005-07-12T11:22:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/21 "2005-07-13T10:55:31Z")
> [@Theologue](#): > > That sums it up. Many of us try to do that, and do pray for them. > > /pacifist Christian. I would say include yourself and all people so that we could live together as one Race (the human race) ,with many different view points. Perhaps if we recoginzed that, As the psalmist is quoted in the 81st, and 82d of some bibles, we would concentrate on the phrase’Don’t you know you are gods, sons of the most high".Jesus refers to this in John 10. Look for the divine in others. We are all connected,we need each other, the environment, and all plant, and animal life to sustain the Human race. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/22 "2005-07-13T10:58:49Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I’m glad that **Kimstu** brought up the command to pray for one’s enemies. FWIW, here is #6 among the collection of prayers collected in the back of the Book of Common Prayer, to be used in common worship as appropriate: A good prayer indeed! Perhaps one day "God’ will hear it and respond. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/23 "2005-07-13T11:00:53Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A good prayer indeed! Perhaps one day "God’ will hear it and respond. > > Monavis A quick P.S. to Poly, our actions must also follow our requests for it to come about. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/24 "2005-07-13T11:07:31Z")
> [@Fiver](#): > > How do you know they don’t? I believe some people do,but when I hear the Presidents, world leaders etc. I mostly hear them saying to pray for the dead, and the victims of crimes never the criminals. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/25 "2005-07-13T11:52:04Z")
I do. From Baha’i prayers for humanity: “O Thou kind Lord! Thou hast created all humanity from the same stock. Thou hast decreed that all shall belong to the same household. In Thy Holy Presence they are all Thy servants, and all mankind are sheltered beneath Thy Tabernacle; all have gathered together at Thy Table of Bounty; all are illumined through the light of Thy Providence. [snip]O Thou kind Lord! Unite all. Let the religions agree and make the nations one, so that they may see each other as one family and the whole earth as one home. May they all live together in perfect harmony.[snip]” Since I’ve been Baha’i, and especially since 9/11, this has been one of my favorite prayers. ---
**Author:** ![ckipper\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@ckipper\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ckipper_1)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/26 "2005-07-13T13:54:50Z")
As a child our family went to church together three times a week. As an adult I have not always taken the “time” to go to church, but lifes lessons has taught me that praying for my enemies is near the top of the list. The Lords Prayer prays for the forgivness of our enemies. We will always have enemies, so praying for them teaches me forgivness, hope, and strength. AMEN ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/27 "2005-07-13T14:01:40Z")
Some do and some don’t. The thing with Jimmy Carter is that he hoped bad people would repent of their wickedness and become good people. He prayed for them. Another example come for WWII. > [@](#): > > Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies, and establish Thy justice among men and nations. Amen. For some religious people, your enemies are God’s enemies. (maybe viceversa) Your offing them is God’s will or God’s work. It isn’t up to you to go about fixing them. They made a choice of evil and for that they must pay. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/28 "2005-07-13T15:35:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “The rain it falleth on the just, > And also on the unjust fella; > But chiefly on the just, because > The unjust steals the just’s umbrella.” > > If just one person gets that rhyme stuck in their head for hours on end, I won’t have wasted my time here today. 😃 Dammit, now I have it going through my head… Now I have to pray for you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/29 "2005-07-13T20:26:06Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > Shortly after 9/11, the sign outside a large local church carried the message: > Join us Friday night in a prayer for “all” people. > I remember it because I wasn’t quite sure if they were actually praying for all people or not. Heh. Maybe they believed that brand of laundry detergent is from the devil. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/30 "2005-07-14T11:17:00Z")
> [@Mr. Slant](#): > > My grandfather is the most devout man I’ve ever met. > He acts Christian externally, and has not undertaken an act that appeared mean-spirited, at least during my nearly 30 ears of life. > I would assert that a proper Christian does not have enemies in the fashion that many atheists and most “improper” Christians (the ones that run around with signs saying GOD HATES FAGS) have enemies. > Opposing the actions of another for a worthy reason may make you an enemy of their cause. If the actions of another that you must oppose are (for instance) trying to take your life, you may take actions towards them that are violent, and "indeed they would constitute your enemy at this point. > Nonetheless, I would argue that the purest kind of Christian I’ve ever seen would merely regard their enemies as “misguided”, and thus would come closer to pitying them than to being genuinely angry at them over any long term. > This goes to my conclusion: A proper Christian has no enemies he is mad enough to wish harm upon. Proper Christians may be rarer than Tucker automobiles. I didn’t see your reply before today, or it didn’t catch my eye, but I know a lot of Proper Atheists" that do not consider people who differ with them as enemies, I know several"Proper Christians" who consider themselves friends of God, and all who do not believe as they do as enemies of God. God, if he is good, has no enemies. The word “proper” is a matter of opinion. I think of all the Christians I have heard on this board. Polycarp is the most Christ Like, he is non judgemental (as Jesus comanded) is kind in his words, and seems respects all people and lets God handle others. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/31 "2005-07-14T12:43:56Z")
I think the OP has an interesting point, though, about **official** prayers, which generally do seem to leave out perpetrators/enemies/evildoers. The “war rally” in the Twain quote linked by **Scott Plaid** is one example (as is **Zebra** ’s WWII prayer), and another is Bush’s [speech at the National Cathedral](http://www.sptimes.com/News/091501/Worldandnation/Text_of_President_Bus.shtml) shortly after 9/11: > [@](#): > > We come before God to pray for the missing and the dead, and for those who loved them. […] > > This world he created is of moral design. Grief and tragedy and hatred are only for a time. Goodness, remembrance and love have no end, and the Lord of life holds all who die and all who mourn.[…] > > In every generation, the world has produced enemies of human freedom. They have attacked America because we are freedom’s home and defender, and the commitment of our fathers is now the calling of our time. > > On this national day of prayer and remembrance, we ask almighty God to watch over our nation and grant us patience and resolve in all that is to come. We pray that He will comfort and console those who now walk in sorrow. We thank Him for each life we now must mourn, and the promise of a life to come. > > As we’ve been assured, neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities, nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor height nor depth can separate us from God’s love. > > May he bless the souls of the departed. May he comfort our own. And may he always guide our country. This is clearly a Christian-inspired prayer (although as part of an ecumenical service, it doesn’t explicitly refer to Jesus), but there isn’t a word in it about praying for the “enemies of freedom” who committed those atrocities. Nor was there in, for example, Clinton’s [speech after the OK City bombing](http://www.virtualschool.edu/mon/SocialConstruction/ClintonOnOklahomaBomb.html): > [@](#): > > Let there be no room for doubt, we will find the people who did this. When we do, justice will be swift, certain and severe. These people are killers and they must be treated like killers. Finally, let me say that I ask all Americans tonight to pray; to pray for the people who have lost their lives, to pray for the families and friends of the dead and of the wounded, to pray for the people of Oklahoma City. > > May God’s grace be with them. Nor in his more explicitly Christian [speech on its anniversary](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/clinton_4-5.html) a year later: > [@](#): > > A year ago we were here to join in mourning your loss and praying for your healing. Today I ask that we not only remember your loss, but celebrate the rebuilding you have already done, and the work you will still do. I have relived the moments of last year many times in my mind since I was here with you. I have wondered how you were doing, and prayed for your strength. […] > > Earlier today I signed a proclamation calling for a moment of silence across our land on April the 19th at 9:02 a.m., Central Daylight Time, to ask the American people to gather in silent prayer and quiet reflection with their friends and neighbors, wherever they live, from Maine to Alaska, to Southern California, to Florida. > > And let me say to all of you again: We will be there with you. But because of what you have felt and what you have endured, let me ask you now if you will bow your heads in silent prayer to remember all that this year has meant to you, and to pray for those who lost their loved ones on that plane in Bosnia. Only you can know how they feel. May we pray. (Moment of silent prayer.) Amen. […] > > You know, this Easter Sunday all over the world the over one and a half billion people who are Christians will be able to bear witness to our faith that the miracles of Jesus and the miracles of the human spirit in Oklahoma City only reflect the larger miracle of human nature, that there is something eternal within each of us, that we all have to die and that no bomb can blow away even from the littlest child, that eternity which is within each of us. Not a syllable about loving one’s enemies, or praying for them, or the need for forgiveness. And Clinton and Bush are both Christians, so they must know what Christian doctrine requires on that point. So. If people of faith in general accept the necessity to pray for enemies—and it seems from their responses here that they do—then why are public prayers and references to prayer in the speeches of our public servants so silent about it? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/32 "2005-07-14T14:23:25Z")
We may well pray for our enemies, but perhaps a public prayer isn’t the best place for it. Wouldn’t want to encourage the bad guys and al that. And after all, the fact that we pray for them does not mean we pray for their sucesss. In fact, we pray for their complete failure at the same time we wish them the moral best. And the two are essentially identical, because what they want is presumably of no good to them, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/33 "2005-07-14T15:11:59Z")
**sb:** _We may well pray for our enemies, but perhaps a public prayer isn’t the best place for it. Wouldn’t want to encourage the bad guys and al that._ I see the logic in that, but that suggests to me that prayer of any kind simply doesn’t belong in official political activities. If people of faith have to abstain from praying for their enemies when they pray publicly—even though it’s something that’s required by their faith—just because it might make for bad PR, I think that’s rather disrespectful to religion. It subordinates a religious principle to a political strategy. Let politicians make public speeches and pronouncements in accordance with political necessity and strategic goals. Let religious leaders lead public prayers in accordance with the dictates of the faith that they follow. But don’t mix the two. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/34 "2005-07-14T15:53:25Z")
> [@](#): > > If people of faith have to abstain from praying for their enemies when they pray publicly—even though it’s something that’s required by their faith You don’t have to make that particular prayer every time you pray, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/35 "2005-07-14T16:17:25Z")
**sb** : _You don’t have to make that particular prayer every time you pray, either._ I know that. But in a speech where you’re specifically talking about your enemies and the bad stuff they did to you, and explicitly praying for the victims of your enemies, isn’t it especially appropriate, relevant, and desirable to pray for the enemies too? Most people of faith here seem to agree that it is, and that they themselves frequently do pray for victims and perpetrators together, both in private orisons and in public religious services. So if a politician avoids doing that in a public prayer in an official speech, just because it might result in bad PR, then as I said, that seems to be subordinating religious duty to political strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/36 "2005-07-14T16:30:28Z")
Some of us feel that public prayer itself encourages us to be the bad guys. We feel that prayer is best done in private, with the doors closed, and our mind and hearts given over entirely to our Lord. So, public knowledge of our prayers, and their content is not “required by our religion” at all, in fact, if anything it is discouraged by my religion. Of course, I am not an expert on Christian Doctrine, and have no authority to make judgements on what is required of you by the Lord. I try to require of myself that my actions are expressions of the love the Lord has for every man. I fall short of that, pretty much routinely, but that is a failing of my character, not of the Lord. ## Tris “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.” ~ Mohandas K. Gandhi ~ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/37 "2005-07-14T17:05:31Z")
**Tris:** \*So, public knowledge of our prayers, and their content is not “required by our religion” at all, in fact, if anything it is discouraged by my religion. \* Well, that sounds like another reason to leave prayer out of political speeches entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/38 "2005-07-14T18:14:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, that sounds like another reason to leave prayer out of political speeches entirely. My objection to public prayer by elected officials is constitutional, not religious. I didn’t elect them to speak to God, but rather to accomplish civil duties. I don’t accept the spiritual leadership of those who claim to speak on my behalf to the Lord. I would not prescribe to them the content of their prayers, any more that I would accept such “guidance” from them, or from Internet bulletin boards. Prayer is not proper subject material for political speeches by anyone. However, I find the overwhelming desire to attribute spiritual leadership to political office holders a very troubling characteristic of our popularity driven social structure. I think it reflects the intellectual sloth, and absence of spiritual integrity that underlies most of our country’s problems. ## Tris If you are just following someone else, you already are lost. They might know where they want you to be, but you’re just lost. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/39 "2005-07-14T18:41:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So if a politician avoids doing that in a public prayer in an official speech, just because it might result in bad PR, then as I said, that seems to be subordinating religious duty to political strategy. Sure, but for an awful lot of politicians, _everything_ is subordinated to political strategy. Public proclamation of faith _is_ a political strategy, and naturally it’s going to be a version that pays attention to PR. That’s politics for you. I would not use politicians’ actions as a good indication of what people of faith should do, or are doing. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2005, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153/40 "2005-07-15T10:26:35Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > We may well pray for our enemies, but perhaps a public prayer isn’t the best place for it. Wouldn’t want to encourage the bad guys and al that. And after all, the fact that we pray for them does not mean we pray for their sucesss. In fact, we pray for their complete failure at the same time we wish them the moral best. And the two are essentially identical, because what they want is presumably of no good to them, either. The true sucess of your enemies (and your self) would be that they have a change of heart,and do not want to harm others. The Christian Bible quotes Jesus as telling his followers,do good to those who would harm you, turn the other cheek, he who lives by the sword dies by the sword , etc. Most of Jesus’s teachings were common sense. Perhaps if they heard a huge public prayer that was in good taste that would help toward their understanding that no one wished them harm. If prayer really works then that would help non-believers to see the power of prayer,as many claim it does. Monavis [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-of-faith-not-pray-for-their-enemies/312153.md?page=3)