# Why do people refer to illegal aliens as Undocumented? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529 "2009-05-06T11:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/41 "2009-05-09T04:41:09Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > Uh. being undocumented is illegal. And they are arrested for being in the US illegally. Being undocumented isn’t illegal, and neither is being in the US without a valid green card. They’re grounds for deportation, but in themselves, they aren’t illegal, and if someone is suspected of being here when they shouldn’t be, their case isn’t handled by the criminal courts, but instead by the immigration courts, which are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/42 "2009-05-09T04:41:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If you have a swimming pool and have a high fence around it a child climbs the fence and drowns you are responsible. You are expected to be responsible for the child but the parents are not. A bad law in my estimation. Something doesn’t sound right here. Do you have a cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/43 "2009-05-09T04:52:48Z")
People call them undocumented because it’s accurate. People who call them “illegal aliens” do so because they want to dehumanize them and poison the well for discussion before it starts. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/44 "2009-05-09T12:26:28Z")
> [@AuntPam](#): > > Speaking as a lawyer who has done two political asylum cases, an adjustment of status for a woman tricked into marrying an abusive American husband (he didn’t start beating her until she’d been here about three months), and a number of other immigration-related matters, I suggest that all these hypotheticals about “people sneaking into your house” and “eating your food” are propounded by folks who don’t actually know any immigrants. > > How about this for a hypothetical? Suppose your next-door neighbor rang your bell in the middle of the night to announce that she was being beaten and tortured in her own home for expressing perfectly ordinary views–and that she couldn’t get any help from the police because the head of her household WAS the police. She begs you for sanctuary and protection. > > I take it your answer would be: “Did you walk across my lawn? I’m calling the cops!” > > I’m not saying that every alien who shows up with a horrific tale is telling the truth, and in fact have turned down cases where I felt the immigrant was lying–or at least exaggerating. > > But try–really try–to imagine that there are places in the world where it doesn’t help to lead a decent and honest life, where it is extremely dangerous to believe in democracy and freedom, where the people running the government are as savage and cruel as the head of a drug cartel, and will take whatever you have–including your property and your life–on the slightest pretext or for no reason at all. > > Because there are places like that: Algeria, and Haiti, and Cameroon, and Sierra Leone, and Zimbabwe, and the Sudan. > > And when you meet actual immigrants from those places, you don’t think of them as “sneaking in.” You think of them as being very,very brave people who made a choice to live instead of to die, and who came to ask for a very minor thing: the right to live here and work and raise kids and live in peace and pay taxes and eventually become citizens and vote. In other words, to contribute to our society–not to steal from it. > > The immigrants I have represented have done exactly that: they have worked (hard!) and paid taxes and rasied beautiful children and gotten educated and for at least one of them, I have had the pleasure of attending the naturalization ceremony. > > They are EXACTLY the kind of folks I want as neighbors and friends and Americans. > > All of the garbage being spouted about why we, the “real” Americans, can’t absorb any more of “Them” was said about the Irish…and the Italians…and the Chinese…and the Japanese. > > It wasn’t true then (okay, it’s true that some immigrant Irish had never seen a bathtub before, but that’s a cultural matter)–and it’s not true now. If a person is being beaten by her husband or abused by anyone I would allow her to stay and call the police on her abuser. I think we can absorb all people who ask permission to our country like my family members did and I have a relative who is married to a Mexican but he agrees with me. As every one is suspicious of him because of the ones who came in across the border in trucks etc.. We should work harder with the governments of other countries to help their people to get a fair shake. Most legal immigrants are hard working and sacrifice a lot. All people should be more responsible parents and if birth control was made available they could limit their families to the amount they could care for them selves. The religions that do not allow birth control should support those families and not expect the state to do so. If a person is in danger if they are in their own country that is one thing,but if a country knows they can get rid aof a lot of their population by allowing them to cross into another country rather than finding ways to help their people they never will do anything. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/45 "2009-05-09T12:33:28Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Something doesn’t sound right here. Do you have a cite for this? I can only site my daughter’s case who took their swimming pool down because her insurance company told her this when they raised her rates. It is called a attractive nuisance.You may check with your insurance company. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/46 "2009-05-09T12:46:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People call them undocumented because it’s accurate. People who call them “illegal aliens” do so because they want to dehumanize them and poison the well for discussion before it starts. That is no more dehumanizing then calling a person who writes a bad check a felon. Symantics are one thing, respecting the laws of a country is another. If they didn’t feel they were doing something wrong they wouldn’t come in in the dark of night, but in daylight at the border crossings. I feel sorry for the people who have to live in countries like Darfur etc. and I think our government and the United nations should do something about their treatment we went into Iraq on a lie, and spent all that money and lives that could have been spent helping people who are surpressed, to a better life. Difficult yes, but we must find a way some how and we cannot fit the world’s population here no matter how much we would like to do so. It is true the people who work do pay taxes and most live good lives, but the expense of them being here and many in the jails and in gangs because their families cannot support them with both parents working is another matter. Also the expense of their health care by using hospital emergency rooms becasuse they cannot afford it because of the low wages they get from employers who expect them to work for a pittance is also wrong. They can’t complain or they would be fired and deported. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/47 "2009-05-09T14:23:17Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > If a person is in danger if they are in their own country that is one thing,but if a country knows they can get rid aof a lot of their population by allowing them to cross into another country rather than finding ways to help their people they never will do anything. You keep repeating this as if it is a great idea. What it fails to take into account is that even more people then would come to the USA from Mexico for example, because usually when the people decide to do anything about the injustice in their country there is unrest in that nation and suddenly the immigrants have a better reason to cross the border as they can now claim asylum. As for the pool example you gave I will have to assume that was the reasoning of the insurance company and not a law, I’m getting the feeling that your opinions really have very little support from the law. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/48 "2009-05-09T14:44:16Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That is no more dehumanizing then calling a person who writes a bad check a felon. Symantics are one thing, respecting the laws of a country is another. If they didn’t feel they were doing something wrong they wouldn’t come in in the dark of night, but in daylight at the border crossings. A really bad example too, besides that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ there is no movement or precedent to make laws that will clear check felons from their past deeds. The reality is that no matter how bad you consider the felony is for a person crossing the border, the fact is that there is precedent and the opinion of many that America does not see felonies like writing bad checks and living here illegally as equal. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/49 "2009-05-09T14:50:39Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I disagree most strongly. They have not yet had their day in court. Calling them “illegal aliens” is like calling an arrested person a burglar or murderer without specifying that he’s merely an alleged burglar or murderer. But to call them undocumented merely quotes the observation of the arresting officer. If they are illegal, they are illegal whether or not they are convicted of being illegal. Unless it’s your contention that the only murderers are the people who have been convicted of murder. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/50 "2009-05-09T15:13:23Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People call them undocumented because it’s accurate. People who call them “illegal aliens” do so because they want to dehumanize them and poison the well for discussion before it starts. Is that the reason, or is it generally that people who call them “illegal aliens” do so because that’s simply the standard phrase? I think you’re assigning venal motives to (hundreds of) millions of Americans for no adequate reason. That said, “undocumented” happens to be more accurate, as a \*person \*cannot be “illegal,” given that word’s usage in all other instances of the English language. If “undocumented” is too value-neutral for some, may I propose a compromise? How about “unlawful resident”? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/51 "2009-05-09T16:11:11Z")
“Irregular migrant” seems to be all the rage in Europe these days. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/52 "2009-05-09T21:14:02Z")
I was an undocumented non-immigrant alien for three months. 1. enter the country legally in 1994 2. obtain an SSN 3. leave the contry legally in 1997 (reason to leave: my employer and my immigration lawyer had decided it was “in everybody’s best interest” if I started working ilegally) 4. get a job for the Spanish subsidiary of a US corporation in 2000 5. get transferred to the US in 2002; need new SS card which in theory had to be presented at my place of employment within 15 days of starting; be able to ask for it only from within the US due to being a foreigner (a national or citizen would have been able to request it at an embassy); ask for it in my first day in the US; wait for it for three months due to the CIA having to verify that I’ve got the right to a SS card I was raised to believe that laws and regulations must be followed, but how was it illegal for me to wait for the CIA? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/53 "2009-05-10T02:15:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > A really bad example too, besides that ‘innocent until proven guilty’ there is no movement or precedent to make laws that will clear check felons from their past deeds. The reality is that no matter how bad you consider the felony is for a person crossing the border, the fact is that there is precedent and the opinion of many that America does not see felonies like writing bad checks and living here illegally as equal. A document means a big thing in law. If one doesn’t have a deed to a property he cannot claim ownership, no marriage certificate…no legal marriage. No paper passport no permission to tavel to some countries. No document, no green card. If the document isn’t necessary then we are in a sense having open borders and should just forget the whole argument. Do not deport anyone, get rid of the border guards, immigration laws and workers and save a lot of money. The makers all the fake IDs etc. that some pople are making to help people stay here is considered illegal. Just say, “From now on you do not need a document because if you are undocumented that is okay, and you are welcome to stay here. It is much too dangerous to sneak across the borders so in doing so we will save a lot of lives and money in enforcing the law”. Breaking a law is illegal! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/54 "2009-05-10T02:20:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You keep repeating this as if it is a great idea. > > What it fails to take into account is that even more people then would come to the USA from Mexico for example, because usually when the people decide to do anything about the injustice in their country there is unrest in that nation and suddenly the immigrants have a better reason to cross the border as they can now claim asylum. > > As for the pool example you gave I will have to assume that was the reasoning of the insurance company and not a law, I’m getting the feeling that your opinions really have very little support from the law. You may check the laws of your state but in Illinois I have read where a family was sued because some one was hurt on their property. Chicago was sued by a family who’s child drowned in a fenced public pool. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/55 "2009-05-10T02:23:52Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > You may check the laws of your state but in Illinois I have read where a family was sued because some one was hurt on their property. Chicago was sued by a family who’s child drowned in a fenced public pool. Still there is no law mentioned, as the judge that lost his pants in a dry cleaner showed, lawsuits do not depend on laws. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/56 "2009-05-10T02:34:43Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A document means a big thing in law. If one doesn’t have a deed to a property he cannot claim ownership, no marriage certificate…no legal marriage. No paper passport no permission to tavel to some countries. No document, no green card. > > If the document isn’t necessary then we are in a sense having open borders and should just forget the whole argument. Do not deport anyone, get rid of the border guards, immigration laws and workers and save a lot of money. > > The makers all the fake IDs etc. that some pople are making to help people stay here is considered illegal. Just say, “From now on you do not need a document because if you are undocumented that is okay, and you are welcome to stay here. It is much too dangerous to sneak across the borders so in doing so we will save a lot of lives and money in enforcing the law”. Breaking a law is illegal! Still the punishment for it is not the same as precedent and current law shows. There is a precedent to give a path to citizenship to the ones that demonstrate that they did not commit any other felonies, and even a good number of conservatives agree with this. And before you reply take into account that I was an illegal before, but I became an American citizen. It is ridiculous to ignore that laws changed in the past to allow that to be possible and it would be silly to just stomp your feet on the ground an insist that I’m still a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/57 "2009-05-10T06:10:25Z")
It’s called Political Correctism. It’s like saying a person is ‘height challenged’ instead of saying he is short. It is a way that the Left have of trying not to offend anyone for fear of being called a racist. Another way to say it is called ‘sugar coating shit’. Personally, I like the term ‘illegal border crosser’ because it says exactly what it is without mincing words. The term ‘Alien’ nowadays has more of a connotation of a being from another planet ala Roswell style. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/58 "2009-05-10T10:25:49Z")
> [@AuntPam](#): > > But try–really try–to imagine that there are places in the world where it doesn’t help to lead a decent and honest life, where it is extremely dangerous to believe in democracy and freedom, where the people running the government are as savage and cruel as the head of a drug cartel, and will take whatever you have–including your property and your life–on the slightest pretext or for no reason at all. > > Because there are places like that: Algeria, and Haiti, and Cameroon, and Sierra Leone, and Zimbabwe, and the Sudan. > > And when you meet actual immigrants from those places, you don’t think of them as “sneaking in.” You think of them as being very,very brave people who made a choice to live instead of to die, and who came to ask for a very minor thing: the right to live here and work and raise kids and live in peace and pay taxes and eventually become citizens and vote. In other words, to contribute to our society–not to steal from it. > > The immigrants I have represented have done exactly that: they have worked (hard!) and paid taxes and rasied beautiful children and gotten educated and for at least one of them, I have had the pleasure of attending the naturalization ceremony. > > They are EXACTLY the kind of folks I want as neighbors and friends and Americans. > > All of the garbage being spouted about why we, the “real” Americans, can’t absorb any more of “Them” was said about the Irish…and the Italians…and the Chinese…and the Japanese. > > It wasn’t true then (okay, it’s true that some immigrant Irish had never seen a bathtub before, but that’s a cultural matter)–and it’s not true now. **AuntPam** : I think most people draw a distinction between refugees literally fleeing for their lives from war and genocide and certain death, and the people who slip across the border illegally because they know they can make more money in the US (and yes, build better lives for their kids). The first group (the genuine refugees) has my sympathy, and whatever system of international law that deals with refugees should be swift and humane and effective. The second group also has my sympathies, but I would ask you: is there _no_ limit to how many immigrants a country can take in per year? And, does a country not have the right to decide who those immigrants are going to be, and where they are going to come from? If deportation is so hard, would you agree that it would be best to nip the problem in the bud by tightening control of the borders so that fewer people who by all rights _should_ be deported don’t get in in the first place? Also, for all the back-and-forth about how being in the country “undocumented” is not necessarily “illegal”: that may be true, but many of these people are _working_ undocumented, which most certainly _is_ illegal, no? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/59 "2009-05-10T11:18:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Still the punishment for it is not the same as precedent and current law shows. > > There is a precedent to give a path to citizenship to the ones that demonstrate that they did not commit any other felonies, and even a good number of conservatives agree with this. And before you reply take into account that I was an illegal before, but I became an American citizen. It is ridiculous to ignore that laws changed in the past to allow that to be possible and it would be silly to just stomp your feet on the ground an insist that I’m still a criminal. That may be true,but you can be deported, they do not put what you call undocumented people in jail but send them back. The punishment is different, but it is still disrespecting the laws of our country. You are supposed to come in the country legally. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529/60 "2009-05-10T20:45:44Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > That may be true,but you can be deported, they do not put what you call undocumented people in jail but send them back. The punishment is different, but it is still disrespecting the laws of our country. You are supposed to come in the country legally. Of course, but there are humanitarian and other reasons why people enter illegally, my family was in the process of getting legal visas but suddenly threats to my life appeared and we decided that I could not wait. 10 years after in the early 90’s I gained legal residency thanks to amnesty and the Nacara law (made IMHO because even the Republicans in the USA knew how guilty they were on supporting military dictatorships in Central America) and later I became a US citizen. Of course if someone had deported me back then, I would not had the chance to get into electronic testing and test devices that eventually got into Tomahawk missiles that kicked Saddam Hussein’s butt. Not all illegals come to be a burden **monavis**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-people-refer-to-illegal-aliens-as-undocumented/495529.md?page=4)